The Dust Has Settled - Thoughts On Fallout: New Vegas

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31-01-2012, 04:39 PM
Heliocentric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althea

Two. One human, one non-human.

Mods say hi.
31-01-2012, 04:54 PM
Althea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heliocentric

Mods say hi.

Mods do not and should not factor into the comparison between two games, nor when talking about game features. I certainly don't consider them, anyway.
31-01-2012, 06:04 PM
Stellar Duck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althea

Mods do not and should not factor into the comparison between two games, nor when talking about game features. I certainly don't consider them, anyway.

But they are relevant in this case, as someone who didn't know you could have more than one dude on you might also be interested in knowing if a mod existed to allow for even more. At least I think so.
31-01-2012, 06:17 PM
Althea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stellar Duck

But they are relevant in this case, as someone who didn't know you could have more than one dude on you might also be interested in knowing if a mod existed to allow for even more. At least I think so.

Mentioning them is relevant as in "Oh, you can get a mod to increase the limit", but when comparing two games adding mods into the mix isn't particularly helpful to anyone.
31-01-2012, 06:34 PM
archonsod

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalangel

The original Fallout had something when it made weapons like the laser and especially the plasma rifle absolutely lethal, one-hit kill weapons in the hands of a skilled user.

They were one hit kills if you shot the target in the eyes, but they had such a ridiculous modifier that farting in the face of a supermutant would likely result in a kill. 3 / NV has no eyes so the damage modifiers are slightly more sensible, but on the other hand it tracks locational damage rather than rolling on a crit table so it probably evens out (since you could always roll low on your crit table in the first two. Especially if you had low luck or Jinxed).

Without using the aim / critical system energy weapons were only one hit kills against the lighter armours. Anyone in combat armour or better could usually absorb a fair few body shots, which was a slight problem since energy weapons tended not to be available until the late game when you were facing power armour or supermutants anyway.
31-01-2012, 06:37 PM
Drinking with Skeletons

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobtree

NV has some great writing and a strong consistent setting, but the world isn't half as much fun to explore, and the engine ugliness virtually ruins what should be a beautiful landscape (see RDR). The mechanics are better overall (faction reputations!), but you're still a world-killer by lv20 or so, the limited AI combat tactics are monotonous, and you end up with an encyclopedic list of aid items that becomes a chore to sort through.

First of all, Red Dead Redemption looks amazing. Had it been on PC--and therefore had access to anti-aliasing and higher resolutions--I think it would handily beat even Skyrim in terms of impressive environments. If you mean that lack of those two features is "engine ugliness" that "ruins...a beautiful landscape," then you are inordinately critical of game visuals.

Second: you are right about the balance, at least for the base game. In fact, you are nearly invincible long before you hit 20, and you can jump up the ladder very quickly due to the fact that quest XP doesn't scale or even change much over the course of the game. DLC enemies (outside of the weirdly easy Honest Hearts), however, pose a significant threat for even the highest-end character (and with the DLC, you can go up to level 50, I believe).
31-01-2012, 06:43 PM
Nalano

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalangel

This really is just a game engine limitation again.

Well, yeah. But Obsidian didn't make the engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althea

I agree they're meant to be tough and hard, but they're disproportionately so relative to most other creatures, which also goes for the Legion Assassins and a few other creatures.

.50 with match rounds. BOOMheadshot. God help you if you miss, tho.
31-01-2012, 07:00 PM
archonsod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drinking with Skeletons

Second: you are right about the balance, at least for the base game. In fact, you are nearly invincible long before you hit 20, and you can jump up the ladder very quickly due to the fact that quest XP doesn't scale or even change much over the course of the game. DLC enemies (outside of the weirdly easy Honest Hearts), however, pose a significant threat for even the highest-end character (and with the DLC, you can go up to level 50, I believe).

Without the DLC you're limited to level 30, which means in order to be capable of virtual invincibility you have to focus on at least one combat skill, which means while you may very well be capable of slaughtering anything the Wasteland throws at you, you're gimped in some other area because of it. This is actually what balance is about (and since most players tend to focus on one type of combat it also means they're highly specialised in that area - having 100 in guns works quite well, until you run out of bullets and have to resort to fisticuffs).

The DLC destroy the balance by not only upping the level cap to 50, but giving you a skill book generator, which pretty much means you can max out every skill with a little patience. Then again, it does require deliberate effort by the player.
31-01-2012, 07:34 PM
metalangel

Quote:

Originally Posted by archonsod

They were one hit kills if you shot the target in the eyes, but they had such a ridiculous modifier that farting in the face of a supermutant would likely result in a kill. 3 / NV has no eyes so the damage modifiers are slightly more sensible, but on the other hand it tracks locational damage rather than rolling on a crit table so it probably evens out (since you could always roll low on your crit table in the first two. Especially if you had low luck or Jinxed).

Without using the aim / critical system energy weapons were only one hit kills against the lighter armours. Anyone in combat armour or better could usually absorb a fair few body shots, which was a slight problem since energy weapons tended not to be available until the late game when you were facing power armour or supermutants anyway.

Towards the end of Fallout 3 my character was one-shotting most enemies with plasma rifle headshots. Except those three superenemies, which just swallowed my ammo and caused tons of CND loss.

The point I'm trying to make is that even if these creatures are meant to be toughened by the wasteland and radiation and mutation, they are still living things that won't survive 25,000 degree plasma projectiles.

"That would make it all a one hit kill again!"

I don't want that, but I don't want to have to fire fifty shots into something to kill it with one of the best weapons in the game, either.

Two other things:
-if you didn't mind being a bit quicksavey, you could use those eyeshots to grab a laser rifle right at the beginning of the original... go straight to the military base, lure the nearest guard away to the road, then score yourself a critical eye hit with the 10mm
-deathclaws are worse in New Vegas, because we don't have the dart gun like in Fallout 3. The dart gun would send their legs all wobbly and they'd hobble slowly after you, leaving you free to pick them off from a distance or run away. No, I don't why nobody played darts in Nevada. I suppose all the hookers and blackjack meant there just wasn't enough time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalano

Well, yeah. But Obsidian didn't make the engine.

Agreed. I just wish they could be a bit more... elegant... in concealing its limitations when making their game world.
31-01-2012, 07:40 PM
Nalano

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalangel

Agreed. I just wish they could be a bit more... elegant... in concealing its limitations when making their game world.

Any other game engine, is all I ask. Hell, is Rockstar selling licenses for their GTA stuff?
31-01-2012, 07:59 PM
Althea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalano

Well, yeah. But Obsidian didn't make the engine.

Nor did Bethesda, but Bethesda did mangle it beyond repair.
31-01-2012, 08:00 PM
Nalano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althea

Nor did Bethesda, but Bethesda did mangle it beyond repair.

Boy howdy.

Also, hey, Ms. Bushy Eyebrows is no longer bloody!
31-01-2012, 08:03 PM
Wizardry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althea

Nor did Bethesda, but Bethesda did mangle it beyond repair.

They did. Gamebryo is only a graphics engine. Even Civilization IV, a game that's a world apart, used it.
31-01-2012, 08:05 PM
Althea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizardry

They did. Gamebryo is only a graphics engine. Even Civilization IV, a game that's a world apart, used it.

As did the cult-classic (at least in terms of gaming), Freedom Force.

I have no idea what Bethesda did to it, but I think it definitely ranks as something like Grievous Bodily Harm.
31-01-2012, 08:09 PM
Nalano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althea

As did the cult-classic (at least in terms of gaming), Freedom Force.

I have no idea what Bethesda did to it, but I think it definitely ranks as something like Grievous Bodily Harm.

Divinity II was so much cleaner as a game - open environments and all - despite using Gamebryo. But, really, I'm talking about Bethesda's thing rather than a generalized apparatus.
31-01-2012, 08:14 PM
Althea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalano

Divinity II was so much cleaner as a game - open environments and all - despite using Gamebryo. But, really, I'm talking about Bethesda's thing rather than a generalized apparatus.

Divinity II is what happens when a smaller-budget European developer makes a game without being dicks. Yes, it had issues, and a few moments of questionable design, but it blew a lot of AAA games from other studios out of the water. Shame so few people have played it, though, simply because it's a lower-budget Euro action RPG.

But yes, Bethesda's abomination? Even its new, non-licensed form (Creation) doesn't seem perfect. It's a lot better than their broken Gamebryo-based engine from their earlier games, but Creation is just lacking. It's 2012 and it doesn't use above 2GB of RAM, even with the LAA fix, and I believe it doesn't even properly utilise quad-core.

GENIUS.
31-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Nalano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althea

But yes, Bethesda's abomination? Even its new, non-licensed form (Creation) doesn't seem perfect. It's a lot better than their broken Gamebryo-based engine from their earlier games, but Creation is just lacking. It's 2012 and it doesn't use above 2GB of RAM, even with the LAA fix, and I believe it doesn't even properly utilise quad-core.

GENIUS.

And I highly suspect it can't do vehicles.
31-01-2012, 08:25 PM
Stellar Duck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalano

And I highly suspect it can't do vehicles.

Unless a horse is a vehicle. I'd love to tack on a cart though.
31-01-2012, 08:27 PM
Nalano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stellar Duck

Unless a horse is a vehicle. I'd love to tack on a cart though.

I keep forgetting about the horses. I wonder why.

Oh, right, because they suck.
31-01-2012, 08:30 PM
Althea

Skyrim's horses are way too "light" in how they handle. It's terrible.

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