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  1. #61
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caddybear View Post
    I will not pass up games I'll enjoy.
    There's a bakery round the corner from my home which has excellent doughnuts. The bakery institutes business practises which offend me and directly impact my enjoyment of said doughnuts. I stop going to that bakery. Simple.

    I'm not going to say someone can't bitch about DRM in a line of games they continue to buy even though they know what they're getting into, but... it's a videogame. There are thousands of them. It's really not that hard to avoid one. This idea gamers get in their heads that they're depriving themselves of an experience and 'no! why should I be the one to suffer!' is just so pathetic. I didn't play Mass Effect 2. HOW AM I ALIVE?!

    Now I'm human too, occasionally I get the gamer itch for something I simply must have maybe once or twice a year. Not every single week. I am not some child waving about his mother's credit card who has a new favourite movie every Saturday. Gamers need to stop acting like entitled brats with the self-control of a nymphomaniac standing next to a bowl of fruit.
    Last edited by Drake Sigar; 17-03-2013 at 10:19 AM.

  2. #62
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    A fun new shite nugget from EA. They are now preventing forum users from posting the EA customer care phone number to reduce refunds.

    A part of me just has to admire the sheer balls of EA at this point.

    If anyone wants the number it is 1-866-543-5435

    “People will kill you over time, and how they’ll kill you is with tiny, harmless phrases, like “be realistic”
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    There's a bakery round the corner from my home which has excellent doughnuts. The bakery institutes business practises which offend me and directly impact my enjoyment of said doughnuts. I stop going to that bakery. Simple.
    If it impacts your enjoyment then maybe you aren't enjoying them enough to keep buying them. I'd prefer if they changed, but if they don't then they won't be selling their things to me if I decide that I don't like them, especially if they try to pull the Simcity crap on their other games.

    They can't be stupid enough to try the same thing over and over again, right? Eventually they'll improve since their sales aren't really good lately.

  4. #64
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caddybear View Post
    They can't be stupid enough to try the same thing over and over again, right? Eventually they'll improve since their sales aren't really good lately.
    Ever heard of Spore, Red Alert 3, and Mass Effect for the PC?

    Yeah, they'll improve. By which I mean they'll keep tweaking the DRM until they find something customers shout slightly less loudly about. That golden spot between outrage and grudging tolerance is where they've thrived for years.

  5. #65
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    I find it hard to hate a company that employs someone called Ocean Quigley.

  6. #66
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    Ever heard of Spore, Red Alert 3, and Mass Effect for the PC?

    Yeah, they'll improve. By which I mean they'll keep tweaking the DRM until they find something customers shout slightly less loudly about. That golden spot between outrage and grudging tolerance is where they've thrived for years.
    ...

    So they'll improve their approach until it is acceptable?
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  7. #67
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    I still remember the outrage that started when Bioshock was announced to be using online activation.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2007/08/24/2k-say-oops/

    Now it's the accepted norm.
    How many more times before always on DRM gets accepted? We've had Diablo 3, Ass Creed 2 and now Simcity. Thankfully the outrage is still strong and in many ways this is a worst response than Diablo 3 had.
    “People will kill you over time, and how they’ll kill you is with tiny, harmless phrases, like “be realistic”
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  8. #68
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    ...

    So they'll improve their approach until it is acceptable?
    Depends on whether you think going from a highly intrusive version of SecuROM and an installation limit to an always-online model counts as an improvement. Which is less shitty? Tough call. Let me look over some pie charts and I'll get back to you.

  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    Depends on whether you think going from a highly intrusive version of SecuROM and an installation limit to an always-online model counts as an improvement. Tough call.
    Yeah, I kind of alluded to that in my previous "Have we really accomplished anything?" post, but I do know this:

    Compared to having to pay attention to how I uninstalled a program VS Steam and even Origin where I just install and uninstall to the detriment of my interwebs, I choose the latter. Mainly because I value usability and convenience over the ability to re-sell games/worry that the assholes at Gamestop are selling used games as new titles again.
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  10. #70
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    Steam works great until it doesn't.

    I used to commute and sure enough everyday I would start up Steam and everyday it would say "Unable to start in offline mode, please connect to the internet and turn on offline mode". Everyday. For two years.
    “People will kill you over time, and how they’ll kill you is with tiny, harmless phrases, like “be realistic”
    Dylan Moran

  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    "Corporation: An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility."
    Worthy of Bierce, well done.

  12. #72
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    Now it's the accepted norm.
    One-time online activation that's trivially crackable is the limit of acceptability, IMO. Once they start locking away key features and content on their servers, they've ceased providing a game in favor of a "service platform". Any level of DRM affects the price I'm willing to pay, but my primary concern is preserving history. If pirates can accomplish that without much effort, fine.

    Throwing away history is a line you can't cross without a damn good reason - like a genuine MMO where single player makes no sense. That's been Maxis' most recent argument of course, but it's patently absurd. Any 100%-soloable MMO is walking a fine line, but in SimCity all the multiplayer features are so clearly unnecessary to the game experience.
    Last edited by TillEulenspiegel; 17-03-2013 at 07:24 PM.

  13. #73
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    As far as hating EA goes, I think it's unrealistic to hate a corporation with ever changing people and practices.

    I don't think it is unreasonable to hate a Corporations practices though. I for one hate their marketing. Full of lies and generally as far from representative of the product as possible.

    I also don't particularly like their games though that is no great sin on their part. What is a sin, in my opinion, is the fact that they often take a game mid development or pre development and change it to the games detriment. (DA:O for example)

    Their PR is messy and their practices undesirable.

    So I don't hate EA but I do wish they would go out of business. I am aware of the amount of lost jobs that would cause and I would hope all staff would find work elsewhere, but I don't like the way EA operates and I feel I am justified in that.

  14. #74
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dariune View Post
    As far as hating EA goes, I think it's unrealistic to hate a corporation with ever changing people and practices.
    Ever-changing people, perhaps, but the way corporations are organized, their practices are almost always the same. EA didn't have a revelation in policy between when it was buying up Bullfrog and Westwood and when it was buying up PopCap and Digital Illusions. EA's doing what EA's always done. The CEOs are apparatchiks, but the engine is running the same course it always was.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Yeah, I kind of alluded to that in my previous "Have we really accomplished anything?" post, but I do know this:

    Compared to having to pay attention to how I uninstalled a program VS Steam and even Origin where I just install and uninstall to the detriment of my interwebs, I choose the latter. Mainly because I value usability and convenience over the ability to re-sell games/worry that the assholes at Gamestop are selling used games as new titles again.
    You can reinstall Origin games?

  16. #76
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    No I think many of their policies have changed over the years. Unfortunately for me and others like me, not for the better which is why I dislike them.

    The online DRM is effectively a policy to control and manipulate the products users. This is a "Policy" put in effect relatively recently.

    On the other hand, some corporations make much larger changes in a bid to win back favour or keep hold of a foothold in a niche market.

    In EA's case, I don't think they have made any laudable changes in the last 15 years. (Which is partly why I get frustrated with peopel saying "Don't hate on EA for stuff they did 15 years ago". I don't, I'ts the things they have been doing for the last 15 years and haven't changed added to the newer things they are doing which are equally distasteful)

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    I still remember the outrage that started when Bioshock was announced to be using online activation.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2007/08/24/2k-say-oops/

    Now it's the accepted norm.
    How many more times before always on DRM gets accepted? We've had Diablo 3, Ass Creed 2 and now Simcity. Thankfully the outrage is still strong and in many ways this is a worst response than Diablo 3 had.
    Technology changes though. Internet connections are faster and more reliable now than they used to be. And cheaper.

    You ask the average person if they'd rather have one-time online activation or be required to keep the disc in the drive every time they want to play, they'll take the former option as it's more convenient.

    In time as mobile internet becomes more and more pervasive, always-online is going to go the same way: from being a genuine inconvenience to something you barely think about. We're not there yet, but progress or not when it comes to DRM needs to be looked at in tandem with changes in technology.

  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    I have no strong feelings about EA as an entity but I'm not happy at all with their practices and they haven't released a game I've been very excited about for years. At this point I just don't think I'm the sort of customer they're interested in making games for anymore. There's no lack of good games to play though, so while it's sad to see classic titles and developers being butchered and fed to the sequelmonster I find it hard to care about EA all that much. I'm more concerned about the possibility that more of the industry will be shifting in the same direction and that Sim Citygeddon will happen to something I really do care about.

  19. #79
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    If Simcity is any indication it isn't the consumers internet connection that causes the problem. It's what they're (trying to) connect to that keeps falling apart.

    And I have to say the cost and logistical nightmare of running always on DRM/Streaming means it will never catch on. Indies and smaller publishers will stick to minimal DRM if for no other reason than the fact they can't afford the server costs. Not unless EA or Valve or Microsoft succeed in creating a walled garden with them as the gate keeper ensuring all future games have to cut them in on the action.

    Personally I blame Notch.
    Last edited by Bhazor; 17-03-2013 at 10:01 PM.
    “People will kill you over time, and how they’ll kill you is with tiny, harmless phrases, like “be realistic”
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  20. #80
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Good stuff.
    pass

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