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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I liked BF3's multiplayer.

    I fucking hate what it has done to the genre. The unlocks. The server browser. The DLC. The high cost for private servers. The annualized release schedule to keep up with the Joneses at Infinity Ward.

    If they want me to pay a monthly fee to play this game, they'd be better served charging me a monthly fucking fee so I can just ignore it altogether instead of dealing with their obvious monetary treadmill.

    You know why people still long for the good old days of Q3A and UT2k4? Because you got so much game for your dollar and the game actually lasted long enough for a community to be fostered around it. By comparison, the last CoD I touched was MW, because this shit is ridic and I don't want to keep buying the same game every goddamn year.

    BF3 killed BFBC2, and thus all my investment in BFBC2. Why would I let BF3 invite me for the same when BF4 is looming on the horizon?

    I'm going to repost this from grasskit's post for you since you refuse to read it;

    2002 Battlefield 1942
    2003 Battlefield 1942: The Road to Rome
    2003 Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of WWII
    2004 Battlefield Vietnam
    2005 Battlefield 2
    2005 Battlefield 2: Special Forces
    2005 Battlefield 2: Modern Combat
    2006 Battlefield 2: Euro Forces
    2006 Battlefield 2: Armored Fury
    2006 Battlefield 2142
    2007 Battlefield 2142: Northern Strike
    2008 Battlefield: Bad Company
    2009 Battlefield Heroes
    2009 Battlefield 1943
    2010 Battlefield: Bad Company 2
    2010 Battlefield: Bad Company 2: Vietnam
    2010 Battlefield Online
    2011 Battlefield Play4Free
    2011 Battlefield 3
    2011 Battlefield 3: Back to Karkand
    2012 Battlefield 3: Close Quarters
    2012 Battlefield 3: Armored Kill
    2012 Battlefield 3: Aftermath
    2013 Battlefield 3: End Game
    2013 Battlefield 4

    COD did nothing to the release schedule.

    BF3 did not kill BC2, you can go play with thousands of people every day on BC2 still. You will have to fight the crappy browser, the obnoxiously large weapon view models, the iffy performance, the far worse netcode, the knife lunging...but it is there still running and lots of servers available.

    They also don't want you to pay a monthly fee, they let you purchase it all up front for a discounted price of what it would take if you were to buy monthly. What they want you to do is pay what a game with this much content is actually worth and not the 1990 cost of "a video game." Though that is another debate.


    As to being non-conformist. BF3 is likely one of the top three most popular multiplayer PC FPS at the moment next to TF2 and the Counterstrike series. (comparing concurrent players http://www.gamestat.co.uk/ against http://store.steampowered.com/stats/). I am only non-conformist on RPS, in the real world of PC gaming I am certainly nothing special.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
    I'm going to repost this from grasskit's post for you since you refuse to read it;
    All you're doing is confirming my point for me. Thank you. CoD and BF are birds of a feather, and they are carrion birds.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    The annualized release schedule to keep up with the Joneses at Infinity Ward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    All you're doing is confirming my point for me. Thank you. CoD and BF are birds of a feather, and they are carrion birds.
    Oh come on Nalano, you can admit you were wrong. It doesn't hurt that badly.

    You said they did this DLC to keep up with COD, but the BF1942 expansions/dlc were created before COD even had United Offensive (Sept. 2004), let alone the yearly release schedule and dlc associated with the post COD4 era (2007). Compared to:

    2002 Battlefield 1942
    2003 Battlefield 1942: The Road to Rome
    2003 Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of WWII
    2004 Battlefield Vietnam
    2005 Battlefield 2
    2005 Battlefield 2: Special Forces
    2005 Battlefield 2: Modern Combat
    2006 Battlefield 2: Euro Forces
    2006 Battlefield 2: Armored Fury
    2006 Battlefield 2142
    2007 Battlefield 2142: Northern Strike

    Feel free to dislike the release schedule. Just don't blame it on COD. If anything blame COD on Battlefield, but even that at best is a stretch since COD really pushed its own alternating schedule without a need to against competition, but more on a pure revenue standpoint.
    Last edited by Misnomer; 22-03-2013 at 06:10 PM.

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Dunno, but from what I have heard, BF4 will be released next year in march, and it looks like the DLC train has ended with endgame... so we will have to do another year with this content.

    And honestly, that's fine with me. I actually do not really like the subscription model you propose. Sure, geting new content every few bits is nice and all that, but sometimes it is actually a good idea to call the game finished and move on to the next great thing, instead of having gradual increases.
    Hmm, next year in march? If so, I just might have to finally buy Premium (and the vehicle unlock DLC because I use a vehicle for maybe 5 seconds per match).

    EA still having a good deal for that on Origin?
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  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
    Oh come on Nalano, you can admit you were wrong. It doesn't hurt that badly.

    You said they did this DLC to keep up with COD, but the BF1942 expansions/dlc were created before COD even had United Offensive (Sept. 2004), let alone the yearly release schedule and dlc associated with the post COD4 era (2007). Compared to:

    2002 Battlefield 1942
    2003 Battlefield 1942: The Road to Rome
    2003 Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of WWII
    2004 Battlefield Vietnam
    2005 Battlefield 2
    2005 Battlefield 2: Special Forces
    2005 Battlefield 2: Modern Combat
    2006 Battlefield 2: Euro Forces
    2006 Battlefield 2: Armored Fury
    2006 Battlefield 2142
    2007 Battlefield 2142: Northern Strike

    Feel free to dislike the release schedule. Just don't blame it on COD. If anything blame COD on Battlefield, but even that at best is a stretch since COD really pushed its own alternating schedule without a need to against competition, but more on a pure revenue standpoint.
    So they're not keeping up with the Joneses?

    I'm waiting for the point where you contradict me.
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  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
    BF3 is likely one of the top three most popular multiplayer PC FPS at the moment
    You make some good points, but this is not one of them. The number of people playing is not specifically relative to the quality of the game. Now what you think this quality is will obviously fail to be objective, but it being popular meant it drew in a wider audience. I also put in 100 hours into the game, enough to know that it was good, but not great. I also know that, in relation to previous BF games that includes the BC series, that was a disappointing quality level and life-span for me to play it. I also know that of that 100 hours, I did not enjoy all of it. I still recognise it as being a good game, but one bogged down by numerous issues. Barring destruction and some performance issues, I honestly think PlanetSide 2 is a superior title and I'm willing to bet I played more of it in beta than I did the entirety of my play-time with BF3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
    I am sure you and most of RPS will be patting each other on the back for having that smirk even if it is a brilliant FPS game. There are probably 5 of us on the whole of these forums and board with the guts to say we actually enjoy BF3 and like what it has done for the genre.
    There's also this. Errrm, what? A lot of people on the forums have said that they thought BF3 was an excellent game, to the extent that the detractors were in the minority on a fair few occasions. In fact, if you look at the internet at large, it tends to be that most people really, really enjoyed BF3, but that it was mostly a large amount of veterans who took issue with parts of it. The veterans were out-numbered in this title, so doing the maths, more people enjoyed the game than didn't and, I'm going to say, by a rather large margin. There is no 'RPS group think', merely people who have happened to post in this thread with their individual opinions.

    Now, I've already mentioned what I strongly disliked about BF3 (the DLC, of which I'll happily admit I didn't play outside of BTK, I don't have a knock against. From the sounds of things, they've all been quality releases with decent design and honestly, BF games have mostly always been well supported with regular content updates and releases). I did think it had a few things going for it, but that they were just not enough to convince me. Now, some leaks with regards to content in BF4, along with the teaser for sea combat, has made me awaken more to the idea that maybe, just maybe, I can pulled into it once more. That said, DICE are going to have to pull one hell of an effort for me to come back. If it doesn't? Well, I'll stick to PlanetSide 2.
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  7. #47
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    So they're not keeping up with the Joneses?

    I'm waiting for the point where you contradict me.
    He's saying that Battlefield 2 is where the "updates as paid expansions" thing started. He's not wrong in that regard, but he doesn't seem to get that some of us think it was a crappy idea back then too but it was easier to ignore.
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  8. #48
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
    As to being non-conformist. BF3 is likely one of the top three most popular multiplayer PC FPS at the moment next to TF2 and the Counterstrike series. (comparing concurrent players http://www.gamestat.co.uk/ against http://store.steampowered.com/stats/). I am only non-conformist on RPS, in the real world of PC gaming I am certainly nothing special.
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  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    He's saying that Battlefield 2 is where the "updates as paid expansions" thing started. He's not wrong in that regard, but he doesn't seem to get that some of us think it was a crappy idea back then too but it was easier to ignore.
    I thought it was patently obvious that I preferred the model embodied by UT2k4 and Q3A when I mentioned UT2k4 and Q3A.

    But that'd be too logical.
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  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    He's saying that Battlefield 2 is where the "updates as paid expansions" thing started. He's not wrong in that regard, but he doesn't seem to get that some of us think it was a crappy idea back then too but it was easier to ignore.
    Look at the timeline. If you are arguing that an expansion/DLC is an "update", then that was way back to the original (ever so precious :p) 1942. Hell, apparently it launched two "updates" in the same year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I thought it was patently obvious that I preferred the model embodied by UT2k4 and Q3A when I mentioned UT2k4 and Q3A.

    But that'd be too logical.
    I was never a quake guy, but wasn't UT2k4 a paid re-release of UT2k3 because even Epic admitted they screwed up on 2k3?
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  11. #51
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I thought it was patently obvious that I preferred the model embodied by UT2k4 and Q3A when I mentioned UT2k4 and Q3A.

    But that'd be too logical.
    When talking to someone whose main "contribution" to this thread is, "I'm so edgy and more open-minded because I like a game you other guys don't!" logic is as effective as using an eyedropper to put out a forest fire.
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  12. #52
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Look at the timeline. If you are arguing that an expansion/DLC is an "update", then that was way back to the original (ever so precious :p) 1942. Hell, apparently it launched two "updates" in the same year.
    In some cases it is, in some it isn't. I don't know how many where for BF.

    All I'm doing is trying to dig Misnomer's point out of the hole he's buried it in.
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  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    I was never a quake guy, but wasn't UT2k4 a paid re-release of UT2k3 because even Epic admitted they screwed up on 2k3?
    In a sense. UT2k4 was UT2k3 plus a shitload of mappacks. But for a 3gb install I had a 10gb install directory inside of a year because of all the models, mappacks, mods and total conversions that lasted quite a while because there were no serialized releases to split the community.
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  14. #54
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    Not gonna buy an EA game, especially not Battlefield now that they've started fucking the franchise over like this.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    What was really cool about BF1942 (besides being fun and all) is that the most popular mod, Desert Combat, did not require the expansions. At one point more people were playing DC than vanilla. They hired some of the modders, according to legend, and then made BF2 truly a DC2 and began to close off modding with persistent stuff. Not that shutting downs mods was the goal, but it certainly isn't a bad side effect if you're also trying to sell DLC nee Expansion Packs.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    In a sense. UT2k4 was UT2k3 plus a shitload of mappacks. But for a 3gb install I had a 10gb install directory inside of a year because of all the models, mappacks, mods and total conversions that lasted quite a while because there were no serialized releases to split the community.
    BF3 is 20gb. Not sure what file size has to do with anything other than say that yes there were lots of mods for the game. It doesn't change the fact that the game was superseded within a year by another title that was meant to draw the community away (what you complain BF3 did to BC2). And yes, back in the day we had all sorts of mods because there were fewer games and opportunities for game makers.

    I think the equivalent today would be looking at the file size of all the indie multiplayer games I have bought while playing BF3 as my primary game. People will likely respond that the key difference there is that the money they spent on the one game got them access to all the mods. This is true, but it begrudges those of us who pay for the content made by smaller developers, denies the fact that BF3 shipped with more content than say BF2, and ignores that a quality mod takes far longer to create and release today than back those days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    What was really cool about BF1942 (besides being fun and all) is that the most popular mod, Desert Combat, did not require the expansions. At one point more people were playing DC than vanilla. They hired some of the modders, according to legend, and then made BF2 truly a DC2 and began to close off modding with persistent stuff. Not that shutting downs mods was the goal, but it certainly isn't a bad side effect if you're also trying to sell DLC nee Expansion Packs.
    I have heard this argument so many times and I just don't see people swarming to RO2 or Crysis or the other famously moddable/hostable games.

    Project Reality had less people playing it at its height than the BF2 expansions, even the mediocre Euro pack. Few recently released mods can pack in player numbers anymore like DC. Look at the difference in the number of players playing Age of Chivalry versus Chivalry: Medieval Warfare.

    Even ArmA 2 has been jam packed with expansions and add ons despite its large modding scene. Still made lots of money. It is a false choice and DLC actually gets more content out to fans that want it.

    Modding was what you did when there were only a couple of new games a year at all and you were bored with the limited content in the core game. The issue with a lot of these BF arguments is that for them to work you have to travel back in time to a different gamer population as well, not bring back older game mechanics. Personally, I would take another DLC like Aftermath over mod tools. I would also take this Premium release schedule over and one and done and abandoned like BC2 Vietnam that could have been a new game in its own right, but was left badly needing patches.
    Last edited by Misnomer; 22-03-2013 at 07:31 PM.

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Not sure why they aren't swarming, but they should!
    Hey, Natural Selection 2 is free this weekend!

  18. #58
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
    BF3 is 20gb. Not sure what file size has to do with anything other than say that yes there were lots of mods for the game. It doesn't change the fact that the game was superseded within a year by another title that was meant to draw the community away (what you complain BF3 did to BC2). And yes, back in the day we had all sorts of mods because there were fewer games and opportunities for game makers.

    I think the equivalent today would be looking at the file size of all the indie multiplayer games I have bought while playing BF3 as my primary game. People will likely respond that the key difference there is that the money they spent on the one game got them access to all the mods. This is true, but it begrudges those of us who pay for the content made by smaller developers, denies the fact that BF3 shipped with more content than say BF2, and ignores that a quality mod takes far longer to create and release today than back those days.


    I have heard this argument so many times and I just don't see people swarming to RO2 or Crysis or the other famously moddable/hostable games.
    Still relevant.



    It's like you're actively trying to miss the point. Do you have a bet with someone?

    It's got nothing to do with the size of the files. It has everything to do with the flexibility of them - their longevity because other people made new content with them. BF3 is 20 GB but only has 9 maps.

    The only thing BF3 had more of when it shipped was DirectX and lens flare.

    And people are still playing UT2004, not RO2 you clod.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    Not sure why they aren't swarming, but they should!
    Hey, Natural Selection 2 is free this weekend!
    You answered your own question. Natural Selection was a Half Life mod originally. Today you aren't buying HL3 to play NS2, you are buying NS2 to play NS2 and you don't give a hoot about HL3 when it comes to playing a quality game. And, there are free weekends and sales constantly dividing your interest between games.

    Even if Desert Combat and NS1 were in existence at the same time, their communities were more isolated and seldom crossed over. With the accessibility of Steam and other download services, the ease of patching, and the affordability of multiple big titles. More people are able to play more games.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    One game being shipped with more content doesn't make it better than another.

    RO2 had a bad launch and was unable to gain high numbers almost as a direct result of this, despite being hotly anticipated. Crysis has had plenty of mods and was decently popular. It also required a super PC to run at the time and by now, there are other games to work with that are less computer intensive. As far as I understand it though, RO2 was a good game when the initial issues were fixed and, though I only played it for the first time a couple of years ago, I thought Crysis was great. So, quality-wise, I'm not really sure they're great examples.
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