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11-08-2011, 09:38 PM #41
11-08-2011, 09:48 PM #42
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11-08-2011, 09:54 PM #43
11-08-2011, 10:01 PM #44
It's a sad day when I have to defend Wizardry's single-minded cantankerousness.
Last edited by Rii; 11-08-2011 at 10:15 PM.
11-08-2011, 10:21 PM #45
Mediocrity is subjective, I suppose. However, given the time period in which the games Wizardry brought up were released, I can't help but feel that they don't really fit the criteria of an objectively mediocre game. It's hard to be both hugely popular and hugely influential while still being mediocre.
Let's cast our eyes on another field: literature. Homer's Odyssey could be called mediocre based upon its stilted style, lack of complex characterization, and the many other uses of the supernatural/mythological elements in other works. However, it wasn't written in the year 2011 (and isn't really intended to be a written work and may be better viewed as part of an oral tradition) and many works which feature similar elements owe some measure of their success to the Odyssey. Can The Odyssey be considered mediocre if the works which make it mediocre by comparison are indebted to it?
Additionally, can a work be considered mediocre based purely upon a few aspects? Half-Life 2 is a pretty ordinary game in which you run down linear paths and shoot shit, occasionally broken up by unexceptional vehicle sections and a few cool weapons (most of which are cool only because of the game's use of physics). However, it's technological and narrative triumphs are what cause it to be heralded as a great game. How often do you hear anyone complain that the guns are kind of "light" feeling or that most of the levels are basically just corridors? Those statements aren't false, or even inaccurate, but a person trying to claim that Half-Life 2 is mediocre based upon those assessments just looks like an unforgiving, rigid asshole with no sense of context.
Last edited by Drinking with Skeletons; 11-08-2011 at 10:31 PM.
11-08-2011, 10:30 PM #46
If we don't try to maintain some kind of general consensus on the criteria (and we've had a pretty good conversation in this thread so far about what defines mediocrity), then this thread is just a list of games that people like. And, no offense, but some games just don't need to be highlighted or defended. How many people would chime in "Portal!" or "Starcraft!" or any number of games that we all know about and probably have opinions on? This thread is an opportunity to advocate our less universally beloved, personal favorites. You never know when a title you've heard little or nothing about will pop up and catch your eye.
11-08-2011, 10:42 PM #47
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11-08-2011, 10:47 PM #48
But whatever; it's your thread.
Some examples of games which qualify for me according to the above criteria:
Voyager Elite Force - Competent but unremarkable FPS given additional heft for me on account of its excellent use of the Star Trek license. Teehee, I'm on the bridge!
Stronghold - 'meh' in most aspects ... but I'll never forget cackling maniacally as I constructed medieval Death Stars in the editor.
Super Monkey Ball - Pretty fun, but I remember this mostly because a friend and I hammered our heads against its various stages over the better part of a week, progressing little by little and leaving the console on for lack of a save system... only for his Mum to turn it off one day whilst she was doing the vacuuming. Epic rage.
Hmm and let's have a look at their Metacritics just for curiousity... 86, 81, 87. Yup.
Last edited by Rii; 11-08-2011 at 11:28 PM.
11-08-2011, 10:59 PM #49
Is Urban Assault considered a mediocre game? Because I enjoyed the hell out of that. Seriously, more people need to play that little gem. I would recommend the use of a joystick, however.
11-08-2011, 11:21 PM #50
Little Big Adventure: It's completely bonkers, yet oddly very charming. The controls were an absolute nightmare though, responsible for many a ragequit.
12-08-2011, 12:28 AM #51
12-08-2011, 12:31 AM #52
starting here and scrolling up
Empire Earth III at 50 metas was fine
Judge Dredd: Dredd VS Death was good too
Alone in the Dark(2008) 55 metas was broken but really interesting
APB 58 metas i had abloody good time playing (just no way i was paying a monthly fee)
Wheelman 58 wasa fun time too
Republic: The Revolution 62 metacritics
Alpha Prime 59 metas... its cutscenes were unintentionally hilarious you need a gamefaqq to figure out what you are doing, but its actually pretty smart.
Zombie Driver 60 being fair to the reviewers, the game is massively improved since release, its barely the same game, but i consider the game essential
Magicka: Vietnam 60, why so low? Eh, a tiny cheap dlc to one of my favourites is still a good thing
Original War 61, a reasonable review now, but at release that seems mad?
Surf's Up was a great kids game and a pretty if mechanically unchallenged game, I've neverwatched the movie, never will but i found bopping about the water enjoyable
Clive Barker's Jericho okay yes.... 63 is a generous score, but download a save file for the cheats (the game otherwise wants you to pay codemasters for) and the game turns into an enjoyable romp
Hinterland again, its probably the right score for lots of logical reasons but i just got enraptured by this game
kill.switch being at only 66 metas is disgusting, the game was ace
The Settlers: Rise of an Empire 66 metas is again unforgivable.... yes it was a bad campaign... but just pop on skirmish against another player and its 9/10 material.
Kane & Lynch: Dead Men played in coop with my girlfriend, it was beautiful
Blueberry Garden at 68 i'm sure is right for the campaign thing, but as a kids toy for experimenting in sandbox? when priced like a mobile phone game? 10/10
Lego Racers 2 it let me build the leg batman car practically
The Ball 68 is just wrong
Battlefield Heroes at 69 is totally rightful, maybe even generous, unless you were on voip with a squad of camo commandos and before they added jetpacks, then the game became one of the best versions of battlefield
I'll stop at 70%, as that's apparently industry speak for average
But my "critical hit" is Boiling Point: Road to Hell
Its everything people wanted farcry 2 to be and 30 times the terribadd, yes its buggy but you can save the game any time, and the first person you talk to steals your daughters car unless you threaten him... Its genius.
So... am I required to relinquish my RPS card?
12-08-2011, 01:11 AM #53
You have 2 options: ignore or troll. The first is easy but often unfulfilling, while to accomplish the second just dig up the names of a bunch of turn-based games from the 80s & 90s and say they suck because the XYZ is awful.
As to my rebuttle (made because PS:T is my favourite game, BG2 is in the Top-5 & Morrowind gave me some happy times):
I loved the combat in all the Infinite Engine games - including and especially Torment in fact. Spell FMVs are a rarity on PC and were pretty well done. The combat itself was solid and usually managed to provide a good challenge all the way through the game; in fact I'm kind of annoyed there's this culture of saying Torment had a great story but bad gameplay, as if no one wants to allow the game had both. It's like Crysis and people saying it was all look but otherwise a bland FPS. Like fuck it was - hearing that is usually a good identifier for someone who never played the game.
And the Morrowind level system was great: it allowed you to progress at your own pace and was open to being broken (which I always like in games as it means I have an 'out' option if something gets too hard). I've never really understood why people dislike it: use a skill and you get better at it. The only stupid mechinic is where you get better at 'Armour' by being hit. But then the whole 'Armour' skill is a bit silly anyway.
12-08-2011, 01:33 AM #54
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12-08-2011, 08:35 AM #55
Or we could all just admit that we know what the OP was getting at regardless of semantics, and then admit we wouldn't be as pedantic if we were just having a chat about games over beers, and then just try and join in and have a nice thread of lovely fun and all continue with our days happy :)
12-08-2011, 10:13 AM #56
Over beers? I thought this was more like alcoholics anonymous but about bad games.
"Hi, my name is Fred, I like crap games"
12-08-2011, 10:21 AM #57
Originally Posted by An Anonymous Source
Last edited by GraveyardJimmy; 12-08-2011 at 10:28 AM.
12-08-2011, 10:23 AM #58
Or maybe core gameplay isn't that important to some people. It certainly isn't to those who list The Longest Journey games among their favourites, or things like The Witcher 2 or Alpha Protocol. To those people, and I count myself among them, story, dialogue, characters and writing are far more important than the game allowing me to get injured in each seperate limb.
As for Morrowind I'll put this quote here:
12-08-2011, 10:35 AM #59
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For whatever reason one of my favourite games of all time is 'Delta Force: Black Hawk Down'. I must have played this game through at least 4-5 times, there's something about the weapon handling and maps that I just love.
In many ways I think it was a game before it's time but apparently it was widely regarded as mediocre. I just looked up a review of it on Gamespot which gave it 5.6, but most interesting is this description of why the reviewer found it disappointing:
The game's first single-player mission provides a good idea of what you can expect from Black Hawk Down. It lifts ideas from the movie and throws them together in an unrealistic and clumsy fashion. The mission itself resembles a rail shooter, an arcade-style shooting game in which you're forced to move along a predetermined path while shooting any enemies in your way. For whatever reason, developers insisted on using this idea over and over.
12-08-2011, 10:50 AM #60
Suppose I should mention some mediocre games of my own.
Vietcong springs to mind. I don't think it was thought of as great by many but I played it into the ground for the years around when it came out. It had 3 bad levels: 2 ones where you were stuck in a tunnel which were tense but a bit of a slog to the end, and 1 stealth/rescue mission which just didn't work in the engine. Completing this mission was more luck than good judgement. But the rest of the game was a good laugh: nice combat, the sort of AI which could be genius or short-bus, meaty weapons, great squad mechanics, and some often funny, mature writing to go with the setting.
Disciples 2 is another game I'd count, although I'm not so sure this is actually thought of as medicore rather mostly ignored because it's turn-based strategy. Whatever it is I have lost several hundred hours to it in each of the 4 campaigns, sometimes a campaign twice but with as a different kind of Lord. One of those games that's great to go back to and runs on anything. I need to get round to trying the Kings Bounty and HOMM V games I have sometime as I hear there are similarities.