Results 381 to 400 of 443
08-04-2013, 01:21 AM #381
That's right, still the same answers. They won't change no matter how many times you cut and paste nor how many times you demand things from me.
Last edited by RobF; 08-04-2013 at 01:23 AM.
08-04-2013, 01:30 AM #382
Maybe Rob can answer your question?
08-04-2013, 01:32 AM #383
So it's building on bullshit from the off. You can believe it's not but as I said earlier in the thread, it's equivalent to arguing that the world is flat or evolution doesn't exist or something like that. That's not going to be much use when we're discussing inequality, right? Assuming everyone is equal already is completely ignoring reality (and yes, this is a fact! We're not equal! Surprise!). So no, let's not do that. it stops us from being able to find where issues lie.
Calling for an objective look at facts is bullshit also. This is an emotional issue because it deals with people, not stats. It is the wants, the needs and the rights of human beings. It is right to be appalled when people are treated badly, it is right to want to change that and have people treated better. It is not right to dehumanise a very human issue.
Well, actually, it just sort of means "go and talk about it elsewhere if you want, you can't do it here". But really, again, ask yourself what you want to debate here for reals. Do you really want to debate whether we should be making the world a better place for minority groups or do you want to debate how we do that? Because if it's the former, then well, you're a dick. Do you want to be that dick? If you're genuine in your concerns then as I responded to Unaco earlier, the first step there is to listen to what these people are telling you not shouting them down. We can move on from there.
No-one has ever asked you to just blindly agree. I'm not sure where you get that from. By the way, I'm not convinced there's anything to be proud of about pushing against people trying to make the world a better place, trying to find ways of undermining their arguments. No, really. That's probably a bit silly.
Actually, it most definitely objectively is. That you might not agree with it is, well, that's subjective, right?
Again, what would you like to debate? What is it that you really want to debate here?
All the time in the world.
08-04-2013, 02:00 AM #384
So when you sort of pose the question "well, are you still buying them?", you're asking people whether they have the conviction to hold off on a fairly large chunk of otherwise worthwhile culture where it may well just be one tiny element of the videogame that's egregious (like impractical-tits-on-display-armour or something). It's far more reasonable to say "OK, well all this stuff is good but this stuff isn't cool, guys. Stop that" so that you get more of the good parts without the shitty bits.
The few that cross the line into out and out hateful are, thankfully, few and far between. They do exist but yes, they are in small number.
The point at hand extends outside of what's in the game and into the realms of the more pervasive attitudes around gaming culture. See Fat, Ugly or Slutty, see the death threats, rape threats and everything else that comes with being a woman in gaming. That's stuff you can't sort by not buying DNF, unfortunately. Although it would be nice were it possible, I'll admit.
As for your question, I guess my overall point was "what are you doing about it, if you care so much". I see a lot of heated discussion and some of you guys seem to care about this issue a lot, but what have you actually done about it other than post about it here (or elsewhere)?
All of which are more productive and useful, IMO obviously, than simply not buying videogames. I don't expect anyone else to do these things and I don't promote one thing at the expense of another either, I'm not out to censor or to remove all the titties or whatever, y'know? But yes, hope that answers what I'm doing about it if I care so much.
08-04-2013, 02:03 AM #385
Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
08-04-2013, 02:56 AM #386
I wasn't so much commenting on whether one should do research or not, more your IT CANNOT BE A MISTAKE comment. It amused me.
08-04-2013, 02:57 AM #387
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08-04-2013, 03:15 AM #388
Better get on the horn to FOX News, this is what they've been waiting for!Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
08-04-2013, 03:18 AM #389
Man, you should really stop assuming I mean something else other than what I typed.
08-04-2013, 04:09 AM #390Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
08-04-2013, 04:18 AM #391
08-04-2013, 04:26 AM #392
I said your post amused me. What more could I possibly add to that to make its meaning any clearer?
08-04-2013, 04:31 AM #393Men stop women from working in the industry! (except they don't, they're actively looking for female employees where possible)
Women are paid less than men! (except the Wage Gap is a myth, as proven by Christina Sommers and Diana Furchtgott-Roth)
Women are objectified! (ignoring that men are also, with the wonky and never explained justification of "but that's completely different!")
Men are against female characters! (when really, it's the market. I was surprised at how many people didn't pick Femshep in Mass Effect 3, because I was told there was this big market for female characters)
Women are discouraged from playing video games (yet several recent articles pointed out more women are playing games these days.)
and so on, and so on. Always these big elephants in the room of, "but wait, that doesn't sound right, because..." that get shoved aside to serve an agenda.
Last edited by RobF; 08-04-2013 at 04:43 AM.
08-04-2013, 04:39 AM #394
08-04-2013, 04:40 AM #395
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- Apr 2013
You know, one of the biggest issues I have with this "debate" is that it's always presented as some sort of binary 1 or 0 social justice issue that you either agree with and become the liberator of women in western society or you disagree with and remain in support of the oppresive tyranny, when in actuality it is more a discussion about taste and choice of fantasy in an entertainment medium.
On one hand people bring up the 20-50% statistics about women in gaming even in "hardcore" title, on the other hand the argument seems to be that they couldn't possibly be content or god forbid even enjoy the actual gaming content (because John Walker knows better what all women are "supposed" to enjoy), if this was seriously such ingrained and far reaching problem and not just a matter of taste for some people or other how do you even explain these numbers in the first place?
Queue one of the "horriblest of all games" with just "horrifying and appalling depiction of women" from the even more horrible Asian market, who don't know what they are doing anyway and are just (culturally) "mysogynist pigs", the lot of them!
But oh wait, if you look at parts of the player base, like for instance in this thread that seems to be about introducing yourself to the "community", a very large part of that seems to actually be women who apparently don't have the same problem with it, and supposedly don't need Johns permission to play the game and enjoy it: http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/....php?t=1793473
It doesn't even stop there, there doesn't just seem to be a high amount of women (in what looks to be a rather diverse player base from around the world) playing the game, but some of them are specifically stating that one of the main reasons they are playing it are "because of the boobs" or that they otherwise like the cleavage-based design:
"I want to play this game because: PvP, Soccer, Boobs, tactics"
"i like mmo's of course ive been playing them for quite a while now.i am Canadian and a mother of one boy. typically i want to play this game because its fun? i guess the boobs are a draw in as well but mostly the game play."
"...see you on the battlefield ...doooooooown! ...below my big defender boobies"
It couldn't possibly be that John Walker has a very narrow view of what he assumes a large amount of the female player base wants to play, limited by feminist rhetoric? If you actually wanted to have a "discussion" about it, you could ask players of these kind of games to get together with others that seem to abhor them, try to talk about it and then digest it from a neutral viewpoint.
But instead John Walker decides to demonise everyone involved that doesn't agree with his rather flimsy argumentation and could possibly be against the party line of every Not-John-Walker-approved game being "filth" that supposedly sets back gender equality by about 100 years since pixels in a fantasy world hurt real women (for which there is about as much proof as for games causing violence), couldn't possibly be enjoyed by them and for some reason doom what he calls the "Gaming Industry" of which he is apparently a part of.
08-04-2013, 04:48 AM #396
08-04-2013, 06:02 AM #397
The ironic thing is that NDen carefully laid out why he took issue with RPS' late tendency to reduce disputation of their assertions and evidence to sexism, and then you did precisely that exact thing. NDen was lamenting the hostility toward discussion. That was the main thrust of his post.
I apologize for my curt little comment, but I was browsing the forum while eating a grapefruit and had to run. I didn't have time to explain, but from where I was standing it looked as if NDen's worldview contained you and that yours did not contain him. Still does.
There are other things I'd like to respond to, but I need to stop there for now. Catch you tomorrow.
08-04-2013, 06:29 AM #398
08-04-2013, 06:51 AM #399
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Dino Dini @dndn1011 6 h
@botherer maybe best course of action is not to fight, but advocate and set an example. Only patience and love can truly defeat injustice.
John Walker @botherer 6 h
@dndn1011 I'll let slavery know.
I looked in his twitter for something regarding Sean Maelstrom's blog and then saw this. It's hard to believe he says these things seriously, it's way below the YouTube-comments-level.
08-04-2013, 06:59 AM #400
Haha, no. It's MRA-grade foaming nonsense and falsehoods, man! It's textbook at that.
For extra points it comes with a side order of special later upthread with my personal favourite tucked amongst all his posts, posts previously defending advertising and women (because we're to assume that advertising and beauty have -always- gone hand in hand and are in fact not societal constructs with a fundamental sexist slant), posts where we're supposed to believe he's standing up for women's right to be hired as sexual objects to stand there showing off products to horny men and go women! (real women, not the fake ones that we're defending, all real women love it), not like us who want Sharia Law and all women covered up...
...get this one, it's precious:
"I have disdain for strippers or sexual dancers too"
There's our great defender of women there. He has disdain for strippers and sexual dancers, especially those at events. Let's not pretend this is something, anything other than some serious weapons grade women hating bullshit, eh?
That it comes cotton wooled in some bullshit about how his point of view is oppressed by RPS and John's stance and the comments section being turned off is silencing him, well, that's a thing alright but it doesn't take away from how utterly repugnant his words are and how completely full of shit that first post and pretty much all the ones afterwards are.
Last edited by RobF; 08-04-2013 at 07:06 AM.