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  1. #121
    Activated Node Fireflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And on the computer!
    Or next to the computer. ;)

  2. #122
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    My gf will play some games. She loves playing Co-op Left 4 Dead 2. I've tried to get her into other co-op games like Dungeon Defenders or Lego Lord of the Rings. She mildly enjoyed them but I think she just likes killing zombies. I recently got The Walking Dead for her computer and we've hooked it up to my big screen and been playing it together as well. Any recommendations on a similar vein to Left 4 Dead would be appreciated.

  3. #123
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jnx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erithtotl View Post
    Any recommendations on a similar vein to Left 4 Dead would be appreciated.
    I always found Killing Floor far superior to L4D2. There are differences though, so one liking the other is not guaranteed to like the other one too.
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  4. #124
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    Have I posted in this thread? Can't remember. Hopeless alcoholic.

    Anyway, the missus loves her DS, specifically Zoo Keeper, Layton, and Puzzle Bobble/Tetris. She also enjoys the Lego games on PC but due to the entirely singular setup of the "office", rarely gets the chance as I hog it. She's not that bothered.

  5. #125
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erithtotl View Post
    Any recommendations on a similar vein to Left 4 Dead would be appreciated.
    You should try Dead Island. I've only played it alone, but it looks like a lot of fun in co-op. Plenty of zombies too.

  6. #126
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    Some recent stats about gaming demographics across Europe: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...uropean-gaming

    The split between male/female is apparently pretty even. Germany has the most players (30M), and the majority of them are PC/Mac users (24M). Yay! My fellow citizens know where it's at! :]
    Last edited by DanMan; 15-09-2014 at 08:40 PM.

  7. #127
    Network Hub dudebro's Avatar
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    I don't that's indicative of women have become "gamers" in the sense of devolving into a vegetative state in front of their console or TV playing the latest AAA title.

    My wife was quite enamored with Plants Vs. Zombies for a month or so (she essentially beat the game multiple times in various ways until the game became "boring" for her and she declared how "stupid" it was and that it distracted her from other things she "needed to be doing"), but I wouldn't call her a gamer by any stretch of the term.

    I honestly don't think that many women give a shit about videogames as a hobby. They'll dabble as a way to past time, or in between fucking around on Facebook; there are exceptions, but they're not the rule.

    Open this hobby to inclusiveness, treat women characters in a mature manner, drag it out of the proverbial "mom's basement" (things that will improve the hobby as a whole), but I wouldn't be surprised if the demographics of "gaming" change much unless they include the worthless shit that floods App Stores in IOS/Android marketplaces, or the stupid viral time-gated bullshit that floats around on Facebook, not allowing you to progress unless you allow the app to datamine all your personal information and post ads on your friends list.

    It'll just make it better for the women who happen to be weirdos already, like the rest of us male gamers.

  8. #128
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    hold on, germany has more gamers than china? I find that dubious.


    Also, if you look at germany and how crap it is, you sortof understand why they game so much ;D
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudebro View Post
    I don't that's indicative of women have become "gamers" in the sense of devolving into a vegetative state in front of their console or TV playing the latest AAA title.
    I don't think most people in a vegetative state in front of the latest AAA title are "gamers", either, though. They're just people who sometimes buy games.

    Quote Originally Posted by dudebro View Post
    I honestly don't think that many women give a shit about videogames as a hobby. They'll dabble as a way to past time, or in between fucking around on Facebook; there are exceptions, but they're not the rule.
    You could literally say precisely the same thing about men. The men who are actually "gamers", who actually "follow videogames", who know about more than AAA stuff with huge advertising, or some big word-of-mouth indie game are absolutely "exceptions, but not the rule".

    So that strikes me as sexist. Not in a malicious way, but in the sort of "if men to it, it's this way, if women do it, it's that way.". Most men playing games, especially over about 30, are playing "as a way to past time" or "in between fucking around on Facebook". This includes people who were big gamers in younger years.

    There are certainly more men who call themselves "gamers" than women, but that's a thorny issue, and not really to do with playing habits. My wife has played more games, more seriously, than 99% of men who call themselves "gamers", but she wouldn't call herself that, because it's become a loaded term, associated with a gamer culture that isn't hers. Or mine, for that matter - the lifestyle and interests I called "gamer" and associated with myself died by about 2005/6, replaced by a sort of XboxWoWCoDBro lifestyle which was centered around games and being a "gamer" but entirely different in it's interests and what it considered acceptable behaviour (trolling, rudeness, extreme racism/sexist being much more "okay", because they were "funny" on "teh internetz"). That culture is dying now, thankfully.

    Quote Originally Posted by dudebro View Post
    Open this hobby to inclusiveness, treat women characters in a mature manner, drag it out of the proverbial "mom's basement" (things that will improve the hobby as a whole), but I wouldn't be surprised if the demographics of "gaming" change much unless they include the worthless shit that floods App Stores in IOS/Android marketplaces, or the stupid viral time-gated bullshit that floats around on Facebook, not allowing you to progress unless you allow the app to datamine all your personal information and post ads on your friends list.
    This is just wrong. I know a lot of women who are interested by games when they see them, and like to play for a bit, but are, in the end, pushed away by two things:

    1) Treatment of female characters in the game, if they even exist, and/or lack of female playable characters.

    or

    2) Violence/macho-obsessed gameplay as the norm. Games which offer more freedom really lessen this. I know women who are definitely not gamers by hobbyist standards who play fairly serious games like Skyrim or Dragon Age.

    So the demographics will change. If you made a game about empire-building and relationships, say, a sort of Civ/ME cross-over, as it were, and not about face-shooting, and to the same quality of production and gameplay polish as a good AAA title, I guarantee you'd see more female players playing it - they might not call themselves "gamers", but that's meaningless.

    You sneer at iOS stuff and so on, and yeah, most of it is money-grubbing crap, but the subject matter does point the direction for more accessible games (and not just for female players).

  10. #130
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    The best way to get anyone into gaming Imo is with nintendo products....almost all nintendo franchise games are universally fun and naturally intuitive....there is a reason they had wii's in retirement homes lol. but I have seen many of new gamers made by the magic of mario kart and the likes...and zelda just puts them over the fence into gamer town ...good luck! :D

  11. #131
    Network Hub dudebro's Avatar
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    Open this hobby to inclusiveness, treat women characters in a mature manner, drag it out of the proverbial "mom's basement" (things that will improve the hobby as a whole), but I would be very surprised if the demographics of "gaming" changed much unless they include the worthless shit that floods App Stores in IOS/Android marketplaces
    That's what I meant to say.

    Women don't seem to game much. I literally have never known any woman that "played videogames" as a past time. Not when I was growing up; not in high school; not in the Army; nothing. Especially in the military, you get introduced to persons from all walks of life. Still nothing.

    In any case, I posted that statement not as a defensive rebuttal to the statistics, but simply asserting that the statistics aren't REALLY saying that "gaming" has split fairly even between males and females.

    There was another set of statistics I really wish I could find that broke the genders down in a realistic manner, and reflected results that mirror what I've experienced in life.

    After all, if gaming was REALLY split down the middle between males and females, why do topics like these pop up?

  12. #132
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    My wife is, to be honest, contemptuous and thinks I'm childish, and that I should be doing something "worthwhile" instead. Only a couple of my real world friends play to any great extent, and circumstances mean I don't see much of them these days. This doesn't bother me too much, except that I don't get many opportunities to just sit down with someone who knows the hobby, just have a long chat about games and share experiences. I wish I could find a way to explain to her what it is I get out of games that I don't get out of even a really good TV show, which is the thing I really struggle to articulate to people who don't game regularly.

    My eldest son is only 3 1/2 but definitely showing an interest (tablet, PS3 and PC, he's cross platform hehe), so maybe in a few years I'll have a proper little gaming buddy ;-)

    As an aside, about 7 or so years ago I was very pleasantly surprised when I joined a raid community in World of Warcraft and, via Teamspeak, discovered that at least a third of our regulars if not more were women, with a range of ages and backgrounds. This was the first online game apart from Unreal Tournament that I played, and certainly the first where I felt part of an in-game community and so it was the first opportunity for the nerdy-male-gamer stereotype to be challenged for me. I do remember seeing some stats somewhere later on (can't remember where) that showed something like 40% of WoW players were female, and there were 1 or 2 couples amongst our group who played together.
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  13. #133
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Similar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudebro View Post
    Women don't seem to game much. I literally have never known any woman that "played videogames" as a past time. Not when I was growing up; not in high school; not in the Army; nothing. Especially in the military, you get introduced to persons from all walks of life. Still nothing.

    On the other hand, before I got online I knew more women who played games than men (this was in the eighties and early nineties, even) and most of the women I've been in relationships with have played too. They didn't play many casual games either (I even met one of them on a BF1942 server).

    I didn't really encounter the idea that gaming is a boy's club until I got online.

    Maybe my experiences are unusual, I just don't know why they would be (I don't think I've done anything particularly different than other men).
    Last edited by Similar; 17-09-2014 at 12:05 AM. Reason: a...

  14. #134
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Similar View Post
    I didn't really encounter the idea that gaming is boy's club until I got online.
    IME at least up to a certain point in time, males were more likely to show interest in games than females (IMO this comes down to a difference in how boys were brought up), but males only was most definitely unheard of.
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  15. #135
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    I think even if women do play games, they tend not to admit it. I mean, I also think they mostly play casual games, but they seem to feel more guilty about it, so they're not outspoken about it. Closet gamers, one might say.

  16. #136
    Network Hub dudebro's Avatar
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    Maybe that's it, Dan. My wife's description of games falls in line with Sproutmask's wife's description of games. I remember playing the first Mass Effect, and her only remark about the game was "Do all you do in that game is talk to other people?" lol.

    My wife has also described her distaste in that you have to sit there and do nothing BUT play the videogame, versus watching an enthralling TV show where she's consuming multiple forms of media (surfing Facebook or whatever) or simply sitting there crocheting as she watches (which is her second job, making knit beanies and such that sell very well up here).
    Last edited by dudebro; 17-09-2014 at 12:16 AM.

  17. #137
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sproutmask View Post
    My wife is, to be honest, contemptuous and thinks I'm childish, and that I should be doing something "worthwhile" instead. Only a couple of my real world friends play to any great extent, and circumstances mean I don't see much of them these days. This doesn't bother me too much, except that I don't get many opportunities to just sit down with someone who knows the hobby, just have a long chat about games and share experiences. I wish I could find a way to explain to her what it is I get out of games that I don't get out of even a really good TV show, which is the thing I really struggle to articulate to people who don't game regularly.
    I definitely understand what you mean. It can be so hard to express to other people how much I get out of playing games that I cannot get out of TV shows, movies or books. I always try to explain that while you can see a large castle in a beautiful shot in a movie or tv show, or you can read about the castle in a book, only a game allows you to pillage the cupboards in the kitchen of said castle as much as you like.
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  18. #138
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Similar View Post

    On the other hand, before I got online I knew more women who played games than men (this was in the eighties and early nineties, even) and most of the women I've been in relationships with have played too. They didn't play many casual games either (I even met one of them on a BF1942 server).

    I didn't really encounter the idea that gaming is a boy's club until I got online.

    Maybe my experiences are unusual, I just don't know why they would be (I don't think I've done anything particularly different than other men).
    My school's gaming society was mostly female back in college and I have always known female gamers--both of my sisters play. My younger sister was way more into Elder Scrolls than I was.

    Of the small subset of friends I have that are really, really into games ... about half of them are women.

    I won't pretend this experience is representative ... but that some people who have the opposite experience WILL pretend their experience is representative really bothers me.

    Unless we collect the data properly, we can't just assume that data consistently suggesting women are not vastly outnumbered in the gaming world merely represents an abundance of women who play "casual" games. The thing is ... a crap ton of guys play those games too. So if we have a lot of men and a lot of women all playing Plants vs. Zombies ... and the numbers are still looking similar across all of gaming ... well, it's silly to assume that we have any sort of clear signal that women are only playing Plants vs. Zombie type games.
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  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudebro View Post
    Women don't seem to game much. I literally have never known any woman that "played videogames" as a past time. Not when I was growing up; not in high school; not in the Army; nothing. Especially in the military, you get introduced to persons from all walks of life. Still nothing.

    In any case, I posted that statement not as a defensive rebuttal to the statistics, but simply asserting that the statistics aren't REALLY saying that "gaming" has split fairly even between males and females.

    There was another set of statistics I really wish I could find that broke the genders down in a realistic manner, and reflected results that mirror what I've experienced in life.


    Your experience is not "how it is".

    What you're saying there, it seems is "unless it's the same as my experience, it's not realistic". That's obviously nonsense. I mean, the big question for me is, how old are you? If you're 40+, especially closer to 50, I could see your experience being the way you describe, but I'm 36, and my experience is starkly different.

    Growing up in the '80s, every kid I knew of either gender, who had access to ANY kind of computer or console, played computer games. Now, in the teenage years, a lot of kids started drifting away from them - but that was true of both genders, not just men. They got other interests - sports, the opposite (or same) gender, getting seriously into music, clubbing, etc. etc. - but still, most people of either gender sometimes played games for fun. In our twenties, you got much more sneer-y/frown-y "Oh you STILL play computer games?" stuff - again, from BOTH genders. By our thirties, people had mostly gotten over that, and actually more people of either gender seem to sometimes play games, though with kids, jobs, etc. there's a lot less time for AAA-type 20hr+ epics or "play every day" shooters.

    Quote Originally Posted by dudebro View Post
    After all, if gaming was REALLY split down the middle between males and females, why do topics like these pop up?
    Because people put their personal experience ahead of the realities? And/or want to define any gaming women do as "not real gaming". I'm not saying you're doing the latter, but you are doing the former. This topic isn't just about women, you know? It's about SOs. It's in the thread title...

    Quote Originally Posted by dudebro View Post
    Maybe that's it, Dan. My wife's description of games falls in line with Sproutmask's wife's description of games. I remember playing the first Mass Effect, and her only remark about the game was "Do all you do in that game is talk to other people?" lol.

    My wife has also described her distaste in that you have to sit there and do nothing BUT play the videogame, versus watching an enthralling TV show where she's consuming multiple forms of media (surfing Facebook or whatever) or simply sitting there crocheting as she watches (which is her second job, making knit beanies and such that sell very well up here).
    That's her view, but you seem to think it's typical, and I don't think it is. My wife loved that in ME the characters actually had conversations, and loved ME3's MP from watching that she got me to buy her a copy so we could play together!

  20. #140
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    DanMan & dudebro: Personally, I know quite a lot of female gamers that play all kinds of games and are also outspoken about their hobby. Just like with other things in life we often automatically assume that our personal/anecdotal experiences are more representative of the overall state of things than we could possibly infer. Obviously, this holds true no matter from which perspective you look at things, so I'd be interested in whether there's some sort of survey data on this topic.

    Mental note to self: Must look for such things... later.
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