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  1. #81
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    (emphasis mine) I'm only quoting you because you mentioned the Mistborn series. Sanderson is one of my new favorite fantasy authors.
    The Mistborn series is pretty awesome. :) I like Sanderson's magic systems, I like his mythos, I like his embrace of pulpy fantasy tropes and his slight but appreciable subversions of them ... I liked Garth Nix's Sabriel for very similar reasons and while Sanderson can be a bit heavy handed when the books head into moral territory, he's pretty deft as a writer of fantasy.

    I haven't dug into Way of Kings yet. My sister gave it to me for Chirstmas and said it's amazing. I'll probably get around to it by the end of the month.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  2. #82
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus neema_t's Avatar
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    Still don't have enough time to read all the responses, I've skimmed them though and thought I'd add a bit more.

    She has played games before, she has told me she used to love a Need For Speed game and one of the Colin McRae Rally games she had on her Dad's PC way, way back. I've gotten her to try both GT5 and GT Legends with my G27 (I built a sim rig, which she didn't completely laugh at, so that's something...), she tried Tekken Tag 2 when I handed her the controller and we played LittleBigPlanet together but she was so bad I got bored of waiting around so I stopped trying to get her into platformers. But, she played both GT5 and GTL for maybe half an hour each and even though we were hotseating Tekken Tag 2 she kept trying to get me to give her the controller when it wasn't her turn, so it's maybe not quite as impossible as I might've made out (I honestly can't remember how I came across in my first post).

    She came to visit on Friday, while I was driving back from London with her I asked her if she had ever in her life thought about a game she'd really like to play that (as far as she knew) didn't exist. She said she hadn't, which was hardly a surprise, but I think it got her thinking. Then at home my brother showed me a let's play of Surgeon Simulator 2013, to which she said 'in answer to your question, THAT'S my dream game', so I downloaded it on my Mac the day after and left it running so the next time she sat down to do a bit of internetting the screen would wake up and she'd have a go; she did, found it hilarious until she realised she couldn't pick anything up. I made sure I wasn't standing around her to tell her what to do (I did that with Tekken and the driving games) so she could explore it herself, but she just got annoyed and turned it off.

    She saw me perusing my 'geek forum' (GT Planet, not RPS because you guys are totally cool and not geeks (and there's no app for it)) and where I'd normally hide my banal conversations about how much I hated Far Cry 3's story or the reasons why Nvidia passed on Sony's offer to build the PS4's GPU, I let her read over my shoulder instead. Surprisingly, she didn't laugh, she was just sort of 'oh, right' about it and it wasn't 'a thing' in any sort of way, if you get what I mean.

    That's about it for this weekend, though, she saw my Mum playing some Zynga word game or other on her iPad and they talked about her (my girlfriend) getting it, but she said something like 'Oh, I really can't afford to get sucked in to games again' (she used to play Depict and Words With Friends with me, my Mum and a few other people), but she can't really get sucked in to my PC games seeing as how she'd have to be here to play them and she doesn't have a computer of her own right now either...


    I'm not trying to get her to see games the same way I do, nor am I trying to make it acceptable for me to play games while she's around to the same extent that I would when she's not (I am prone to binge gaming interspersed by weeks of not playing but I never, ever play when she's around), I just want to be able to say 'hey, why don't we play [game] instead?' when we're trying to work out what film to watch (earlier on we watched that fucking Van Wilder Party Liaison when we could've been playing something good) and have it greeted by a 'maybe' or 'sure' instead of a 'pfft, no'. I think if I changed the way I sort of presented gaming to her I could do that, but as it is I'm kind of treating it as a big secret (she knows I actively buy and play games, mind) by never playing in front of her, but I can't figure out how to make it ok to play games in front of her without it being all "Come and sit and watch me play this" or "Play this and I'll tell you what to do", because as a few of you have said that's just not fun and not a good way to introduce anyone to anything. I have to work out how I can present some games to her in an entirely passive way, so not only is it her choice of what to play, but it's also her choice of whether she wants to play or not... If you follow what I'm trying to say?

    I'm rambling, I'll stop now.

  3. #83
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    I think if I changed the way I sort of presented gaming to her I could do that
    I don't see why that's necessarily the case. If someone isn't into it, they aren't into it. If you weren't incredibly over-bearing and the games you selected weren't especially distasteful to her, then there's not much changing the presentation is going to do. I really think it's a lot more about exposure than presentation. A bad presentation can turn someone off of games if they're just getting into it, but a good presentation is about as good as a not-bad-one.

    ... but I can't figure out how to make it ok to play games in front of her without it being all "Come and sit and watch me play this" or "Play this and I'll tell you what to do"
    Whenever you're together but doing nominally separate activities--reading, doing taxes, doing work, talking on the phone with someone else, whatever sorts of things you two do separately but nearby--it should be fine for you to whip out a game. Otherwise ... well, you're taking time that's nominally together time and making it you time. There's nothing you can do to make that ok if she doesn't want to play games with you, and there's nothing you can do to make her want to play games with you--however gently we use the word make. Well, that's if we're steering clear of Clockwork Orange levels of compelling presentation, which I presume we are as cognitive reprogramming puts a damper on relationships.

    I have to work out how I can present some games to her in an entirely passive way, so not only is it her choice of what to play, but it's also her choice of whether she wants to play or not... If you follow what I'm trying to say?
    I'm not sure this is an entirely healthy perspective, if I'm understanding you properly. You shouldn't feel the need to hide the fact that you play games--however lightly we're using the word hide--and you shouldn't have to present things you care about "passively." Even if all you mean is sitting her alone at the controls without you butting in with corrections, we're not in especially good territory--if gaming is your hobby and you're trying to help her explore it, you need to be able to do that. If you be present and engaged while she's playing doesn't work out, perhaps you should ask why. Is it that you leaning over her shoulder makes you uncomfortable? Is it that the sorts of games you've introduced her to are very solitary, private affairs that require intense focus and discourage interaction outside of the game? Is it because you can't help but chime in with advice or commentary? Why does the advice and commentary cause problems?

    Most likely the collective answers to all of these questions (and plenty of others I could have typed but didn't) add up to this just not being her thing. Even if, in theory, you could present games to her in a way that got her invested in playing solitary games when you're not around ... while that's great in the way that sharing an awesome book with a friend is great and it gives you yet another cool shared experience to talk about, it's good to be careful. You should ask yourself at what point you are "trying to get her to see games the same way I do" without meaning to.

    My best advice, to reiterate: I think it's best to consider exposing your friends to the things you're passionate about, and not thing so much about getting them to join you. If you aren't comfortable sharing your interests with your friends openly and you can't really talk to them about your interests without them tuning out, figure out why that is. Is it in your head, theirs, or something in between? Is it ok that you can't talk to them about it? If not ... the best thing to do with any of this stuff isn't talking to us, even if we're fellow gamers and some of us have shared these kinds of experiences and whatnot. The best thing to is to talk to the friends you're dealing with. They know themselves best, and all of this depends way more on what's going on in their head than on any sort of general guiding principle I could give you. That in mind, some guiding principles: ask them what they don't like about games, ask them what they do like about games, ask them what they do in their spare time, what hobbies they wish you would try out or participate in (warning: do not trade hobbies as a favor to each other ... that doesn't end well). Ask them if they have friends you haven't met or don't know well who are interested in gaming. The thing is, it sounds like you might have done all of this. In which case there's nothing for it, but you should definitely try to express whatever inspired you to post here to your partner anyway.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  4. #84
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    The industry side isn't really more on the cutting edge than others.
    Way to miss the point. I was saying an industry that prides itself on being progressive technologically - and the tech industry is progressive technologically - is regressive socially. Historically, those who were focused on progressivism and secular scientific inquiry were also social liberals and proponents of egalitarian societies. So either this dynamic has recently changed or the tech industry is full of apparatchiks and not thinkers.

    Either way, it's a fucking aside.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Those dude-bros exist in plenty of athletic sub-cultures, but that doesn't invalidate sports and render all of sports an unworthy pastime that we shouldn't invite people to join us in unless they're already into it.
    To repeat myself: And instead of looking for equivalence elsewhere, shouldn't you be focusing on cleaning your own house?

    Because the whole schtick with campus rapes (those two Steubenville boys were such promising athletes!) and the shit swept under the rug in favor of college sports isn't obvious enough that it's not working there, too. I mean, come the fuck on.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  5. #85
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Either way, it's a fucking aside.
    And for me it was a segue. Segue seems appropriately non-central as a parallel to an aside. I signposted as much in the reply itself, it just happened that I made my segue less concisely than my point (a bad sign, rhetorically speaking) so it was the bulkier paragraph.

    As for linking the "tech industry" and gaming the way you do, my post specifically made a point about that link being invalid. You clearly disagree, but disagreement alone doesn't counter my argument.

    I'm also not sure I'd equate technological development and social liberalism in the modern sense. They tend to be entwined by virtue of change, and change alone. But as I alluded to in my post, technological development happens in all kinds of ways we don't typically associate with the "tech industry" and the tech industry is full of all kinds of development that falls outside the scope of the technology gaming sees itself at the leading edge of.

    Gaming isn't leading the way into high definition displays--that's home theatre. Gaming isn't leading the way into smart phones. Gaming isn't leading the way into automated household appliances--I could keep going but this is merely a segue into the idea that gaming isn't "backwards" both because averaging gaming culture over the years is immensely complicated by massive demographic shifts and because it isn't really positioned so we should expect the bleeding edge of social development and because it's not really further behind the "real world" than numerous other media sub-cultures. You had a response to that idea:

    To repeat myself: And instead of looking for equivalence elsewhere, shouldn't you be focusing on cleaning your own house?
    I would love to focus on cleaning up gaming rather than just gesture at other mediums and say "hey look, this one's just as bad, this one's worse, hooray." And I don't just say that. I'm not using equivalence sought elsewhere as a crutch to excuse behavior, I'm finding equivalence elsewhere for the comparison's own sake; gaming doesn't happen in isolation, and I don't think trying to shove the medium under a rug does anyone outside of Hollywood a service. Just so, I don't think the monolithic, negative aspects of gaming culture should prevent me or anyone else from sharing a passion for gaming with other people. If I feel guilty about something I do, I think about why it makes me uncomfortable. I try to think about how the things I do affect me and the people around me, but I also try not to let unhealthy peer pressure decide everything I do--and there's a lot of unhealthy peer pressure stacked against gamers from within and without. I think we should share games with people. I think we should share what we like and what we don't, what's good and what's bad and I don't think a lot of the guilt surrounding gaming is deserved. Most of the folks who deserve it aren't the one's feeling guilty and a lot of the one's who don't deserve it are judged just as harshly from the outside.

    To be clear, I want to try to make gaming communities better insofar as I can, but only in the same way I want to make Washington State a better place. Because it's not my house. It's a bunch of people who all happen to do some of the same things I do. It's not my or my apartment building or my neighborhood or whatever. It's an artificial monolith encapsulating many communities in which I have little to no geographical or social connection to the majority of individual members--that is, not in a way also explicitly connected to the hobby. Gamers in my local gaming society? That's another story. Gamers in the thread I happen to be reading on a forum I hold an account with? That's another story. Those are my neighborhoods. That's my house. This? -gestures at all of gaming- isn't my house, and as such it's not what I introduce people to when I tell the about games any more than I show someone around the entire United States when they come to visit me in person.

    We're not working with college rape; we're working with sexist media tropes and undesirable sub-sets of the gaming community at large. We're working with niche interests and skill-dependent entertainment. We're looking at expensive cost of entry, and solitary activity. We're not looking at a monstrosity of a hobby that spits people out more broken and degenerate than they came in, en masse.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 02-04-2013 at 08:41 AM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  6. #86
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    I met my wife through gaming, so that works in our favor. We like board and card games. Cardboard Children has giving some great suggestions for 2 player games. She is more of a casual hardcore gamer. She likes/loves to game, but is more into the mario, mario kart, zelda, some RPGs, some classics, etc. Where I touch upon every genre of games, RTS, FPS, japanese, eco simulations. She does not like the fast paced, twitchy gameplay of RTS and FPS. The closet thing she has played is DOTA/LoL. My problem with playing online games long term with her is being too competitive mid game which takes from us trying to play together, where I stray to play to win.

    She likes the classic King's Quest. I showed her Machinarium which she basically played until she beat it. Etrian Odyssey she got into from watching me, which was a surprise since it did not seem to be her type.

    Party games on the console are easy to get into and play with a group of friends.

  7. #87
    Obscure Node universe's Avatar
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    My boyfriend plays games - in fact - he's the reason why i started playing games ;)

  8. #88
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus L_No's Avatar
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    My SO is not interested in games at all, she played some Rollercoaster Tycoon / old N64 games when she was young, but nothing more than that. It would be fun if she liked it though (the thought of playing Borderlands 2 with her brings a proverbial tear to my eye). Oh well, at least she has no problem with me liking games a lot - whenever she works from home, I sneak away to my man-cave to play some more games :)

  9. #89
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drayk's Avatar
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    I think I agree with both Nalano and Helio.

    Games are my drug, but it's the only one.

    My girlfriend isn't a gamer. But over the years she played a bit with me: Mario, Raving rabbits. i made her play FFIX and she went fairly far.

    She hates 3 dimensional games, especialy FPS. She says it confuse her but i don't believe her, she played mario galaxy without trouble. She just isn't use to it.

    She loves Bejeweld too. Stupidest game I know but... ho well it's adictive, it's true.
    She also plays Arknanoid once in a while.

    I offered a retro 1982 Donkey Kong 2 game last year. She loved it when she was a kid...

  10. #90
    Network Hub roryok's Avatar
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    My wife played a lot of wii games in the past (usually Zelda, Super Mario Galaxy etc) but she's gone off games lately, except for MTG: Shandalar which is her one true gaming vice. We also broke out the Megadrive recently and spent two nights playing Sonic.

  11. #91
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    My wife just saw her brother playing Red Dead Redemption, and now she's kinda interested in it. (she likes the horses, I think) That's not to say that she's dumb, especially since she has an MBA, but hey... women usually love horses and RDD has tons of 'em. I'll be borrowing it from a coworker.

  12. #92
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    My wife just saw her brother playing Red Dead Redemption, and now she's kinda interested in it. (she likes the horses, I think) That's not to say that she's dumb, especially since she has an MBA, but hey... women usually love horses and RDD has tons of 'em. I'll be borrowing it from a coworker.
    RDD has a brilliant story in it. Some of the game can be a bit drag, but it has great characters and story. It would've done well as a mini-series on tv, but it's better as a game for sure.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  13. #93
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    The only downside is that it's on the 360 and not my PC. At least it gives my little black box something to do other than streaming media through WMP.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    RDD has a brilliant story in it.
    For a video game, sure. For a western? Eeeeeeeh.

  15. #95
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjlr View Post
    For a video game, sure. For a western? Eeeeeeeh.
    Man with a unknown but assumed dark past has to do foot work for the FBI in order to get his slate wiped clean, meets cast of colourful and entertaining characters along the way and does everything he can in order to get revenge on those who wronged him and getting his clean slate. Has a good ending that I won't dare spoil.

    Contains gun fights at the ok corral and has interesting locations, train robberies and everything else that westerns have.

    What's it missing that the great westerns have, apart from Clint Eastwood?
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  16. #96
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    I hear Quake is a good game pick up girls with. John Carmack married a Quake player. He also wrote the game himself, so maybe that's the trick ?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    My wife just saw her brother playing Red Dead Redemption, and now she's kinda interested in it. (she likes the horses, I think) That's not to say that she's dumb, especially since she has an MBA, but hey... women usually love horses and RDD has tons of 'em. I'll be borrowing it from a coworker.
    Sounds about right. There have been reports that riding horses gives them physical pleasure and it's the closest thing they can have to safe sex without consequences.
    Last edited by b0rsuk; 06-04-2013 at 12:32 PM.
    pass

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    Sounds about right. There have been reports that riding horses gives them physical pleasure and it's the closest thing they can have to safe sex without consequences.
    Well, that explains the saddle then...

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    I hear Quake is a good game pick up girls with. John Carmack married a Quake player. He also wrote the game himself, so maybe that's the trick ?

    Sounds about right. There have been reports that riding horses gives them physical pleasure and it's the closest thing they can have to safe sex without consequences.
    No. This is not accurate. I ride horses sometimes and my sister used to do a little competitive riding. Basically if you are doing it right your weight and contact with the saddle is all on your butt. If you are doing anything but a walk and you lean forward its going to hurt, yes vaginas as well as penises.

    Some women who are sensitive in the right way may be able to get an occasional one from bareback and walking or something. But most of the time it has nothing to do with that. I've heard various explanations involving power fantasies, being able to go really fast or jump high whereas you are not even allowed to use a car yet, plus cars being so insulated. A whole bunch of girls with the same hobby having fun and various things like that.

  19. #99
    Network Hub roryok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    My wife just saw her brother playing Red Dead Redemption... women usually love horses and RDD has tons of 'em
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    RDD has a brilliant story in it.
    Um... RDR Surely?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Man with a unknown but assumed dark past has to do foot work for the FBI in order to get his slate wiped clean, meets cast of colourful and entertaining characters along the way and does everything he can in order to get revenge on those who wronged him and getting his clean slate. Has a good ending that I won't dare spoil.

    Contains gun fights at the ok corral and has interesting locations, train robberies and everything else that westerns have.

    What's it missing that the great westerns have, apart from Clint Eastwood?
    Well, it's definitely got a good mix of raw plot elements. I quite enjoyed it, don't get me wrong. Yeah, it touches on the by-now-classic themes, the closing of the frontier, the cycle of violence, redemption, all that. You're just not going to convince me it does so better than, say, the Wild Bunch. Mind, by its nature it's more like the old TV shows than the standout films - rather episodic, and certainly the pacing's barely even theoretical (but then, it's an open game, so that's inevitable). But there's no way it matches the great film westerns - it can't. The music, the cinematography, the rhythm, it's not as good as a film at being a film, and there isn't the vocabulary (yet) for a (interactive, tech-limited) game to stand up to the same level on its own terms. I'll stop now, lest I ramble on pretentiously for several paragraphs.

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