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  1. #341
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jambe View Post
    Gleedaniel13's latest contribution is more curious to me. Nalano, what do you make of it? Are we to suppose that Gleedaniel13 feels you are jealous of his impressive nether-region, or of his (presumed) capacity to simultaneously like "big ol' titties" and yet not conceive of women merely as same?

    You're pathetic, Nalano. When you chat with women all you hear is, "blah blah blah blah nipples on adipose tissue blah blah blah" and you make amends for this by hurfing all manner of blurf about equality and generosity and such. Pa-thet-ic.

    I'm offended. I know in my heart that you're super-jelly of me. Because me, me me me, me. Me.
    His avatar makes me think of him as a Vegas lounge singer in a velvet tracksuit.

    Imagining him this way makes all his posts high-larious.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  2. #342
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    His avatar makes me think of him as a Vegas lounge singer in a velvet tracksuit.

    Imagining him this way makes all his posts high-larious.
    I knew it; Gleedaniel13 was you all along! You're a closeted high-fashion aficionado sockpuppeting your way into my heart.

    I find this topic tiring, tbh. It's a day that's not too hot but as it crawls along you realize it's just unbearable for the humidity. And then you remember the AC's perma-broken and there's no draft in the place, so you're just gonna have to trudge through the rest of the day and then come back to grody close air in the evening. Ew.

    It may actually be worryingly gross in these Indiana swamplands, but apparently it's gross all across the lower 48, so at least I can take refuge in mutual schadenfreude and Glenn Beck's cult blithering about how this is actually a nationwide blizzard. Feminazis are lobbying Congress to push a dog-marriage law masquerading as a gay marriage law and the White Knight Cult of the Womb is using HAARP to ionize the atmosphere so as to destroy America's breadbasket and hearken the apocalypse.
    Is not a leg.
    Frobnitz Ichor Liquor purveyors don't need compasses to tell which way the moon sounds.

  3. #343
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    Polygon's review of Dragon's Crown with it losing a couple points based on the art style. 1K+ comment thread ensues.
    http://www.polygon.com/game/dragon-s-crown/9102

    Original art for Dreamcast release of Dragon's Crown that was never made:
    http://operationrainfall.com/dragons-crown-history/

  4. #344
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    Dunno what to think of that; I'm not reactively put off by absurd fantasy proportions. The female designs in Dragon's Crown look more hilarious than offensive, though, and I'd say if you're hotted up by such aesthetics you're probably more laughable than censurable.

    "I'm Debbie Dragonslayer; tee-hee! I'll now demo my Non-Newtonian Spine and Silly Putty Pelvis!"

    *cue throbbing innuendo-techno*
    Is not a leg.
    Frobnitz Ichor Liquor purveyors don't need compasses to tell which way the moon sounds.

  5. #345
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    TB chimes in with his thoughts about the whole issue, because why not.


  6. #346
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus thegooseking's Avatar
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    This has been bothering me for a couple of months so I might as well just say it here. People have been accusing writers (particularly John) of "white-knighting".

    Strangely, the fact that I don't think he is is immaterial. What is material is what fucking difference does it make if he is? Someone's motivation for saying a thing has no bearing on the merit of what is being said. Consequently, if you have to attack someone's motivation for saying something rather than what they actually said, you're just exposing yourself as not having a counterargument.

  7. #347
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    John Hardin, Atlus PR Manager commented on the review (and at the end of the TB video):

    JOHN HARDIN, ATLUS PR MANAGERLove the review, Danielle. It’s a fair assessment and completely factual. I’m truly thankful that it was you who wrote it, and wouldn’t even think of requesting you change a single letter.


    The comments from the game’s supporters are definitely disheartening. It’s ok to not like a game based on an art style, and Polygon is allowed to score the game however they feel necessary. It goes through multiple levels of editing before it’s fully approved, and they’re entitled to their own, informed opinion of the game.



    I urge you to please respect the Danielle’s/Polygon’s opinion and then form your own instead of trying to force your opinion on them.
    I would be curious to see how many other female reviewers reviewed the game.

    TB makes some sound discussion.

  8. #348
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegooseking View Post
    This has been bothering me for a couple of months so I might as well just say it here. People have been accusing writers (particularly John) of "white-knighting".

    Strangely, the fact that I don't think he is is immaterial. What is material is what fucking difference does it make if he is? Someone's motivation for saying a thing has no bearing on the merit of what is being said. Consequently, if you have to attack someone's motivation for saying something rather than what they actually said, you're just exposing yourself as not having a counterargument.
    Your words, sir, only have merit in that you claim the Divine Right of Ganders.

    Therefore, your words are irrelevant. Strange women lying in ponds, etc.

    ...

    You're right, of course; it's super-blatant ad hominem. It's the same sort of tedious skullduggery as bullshitting about authorial intent; it doesn't matter what their intent was, what matters is how they expressed that intent. In other words, the important things are those which are available for us to examine, e.g. characters on a screen; the state of the author's mind at the time of writing is a decidedly-poor avenue of critique!

    In fact, scientific study of memory tells us that even the author itself doesn't have accurate recollection of the state of its sensorium at time of writing, so we can't even fully trust its own explication! At some level we must give credence to its apologizing – it's the closest to having done the writing, after all – but credence should only be given if there's some reasonable or compelling link between excuses and the utterances being justified.

    It's weird to be innately subjective.
    Is not a leg.
    Frobnitz Ichor Liquor purveyors don't need compasses to tell which way the moon sounds.

  9. #349
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus thegooseking's Avatar
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    Mind you, I'm guilty of the same thing, because I'm assuming that the commenters' motivation was to contribute to the argument and not, say, because they for some reason thought it was funny or something.

  10. #350
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegooseking View Post
    Mind you, I'm guilty of the same thing, because I'm assuming that the commenters' motivation was to contribute to the argument and not, say, because they for some reason thought it was funny or something.
    Perhaps, but that's an extremely charitable interpretation of such behavior. I use humor of that sort here; I essentially mock the MRA-types by responding to people in MRA style so as to highlight the Poe's Law nature of such views. I tend to follow that with an earnest response, though.

    If somebody traipses in here and drops a "hur dur check all this unsexed whiteknightery" then you can be fairly sure they're an asshole.
    Is not a leg.
    Frobnitz Ichor Liquor purveyors don't need compasses to tell which way the moon sounds.

  11. #351
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    Square's Final Fantasy already been up & down as it is, so what the developers think is a good idea?

    Enlarge breasts and add boob jiggle.

    The opening of FF13 was tedious but the combat is fun and the game eventually got good. FF13-2 I have not played but looks like a solid improvement. FF13-3 looks like a nice combat mix and Lightning has been an interesting female protagonist that had not been oversexualized (you saw some leg on some questionable armor but that was about it). Now they do this and add a ton of DLC costumes. Which isn't new to Japanese based games, even making the gameplay about costumes. But this is crap not needed in Final Fantasy. And you wonder why Square Enix has been hurting so much...

  12. #352
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    It’s ok to not like a game based on an art style, and Polygon is allowed to score the game however they feel necessary.
    Independent of womenwomenwomenwomenugh, this seems like a terrible review policy. If you're going to score a game you ought to make some effort to do it properly.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  13. #353
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    If you're going to score a game you ought to make some effort to do it properly.
    What is the proper way to score a game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  14. #354
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I'd guess if you're going to score a game you should break down the elements of it ,graphics/art style/audio/gameplay/story into categories and then score each of them out of 10 points or so, then rate it either on the average of each of those or just the total of them.

    Game scores are generally crap and people will just use them as an excuse to not read a review but say "Oh look it got a (insert number)". But is it fair to mark a game as "mediocre" if there's just one element you really dislike? The reviewer might not like the art style, but does that affect the sound, the gameplay, the story?

    Not saying I agree or disagree with the reviewer as I haven't read any reviews on it because I don't care about the game.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  15. #355
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    The reviewer did a good job of highlighting the high and lows about the game and gameplay. But was put off mostly by the NPCs clothing, giant boobs and poses (on top of the Sorceress and Amazon PCs) and gave it 1-2 less points because of it. The TB video does a good job explaining the difference between that review and another.


    And what is considered "mediocre?" 5? 8? 8.5?

    The wrap up:
    Dragon's Crown makes a strong first impression. It's a fun mix of RPG tropes and dynamic brawler action. But I found its over-exaggerated art style alienating and gross in its depiction of women even as it shines in building a world of fantastic monsters and environments, and the forced grind through the same stages dulled my excitement. Dragon's Crown is a wild place to visit, but it doesn't quite hold up in the light of day.
    It got a 6.5 out of 10.

    Fun game with some dull grinding after you play through it some. So... 7.5 on gameplay? 8 at most, if even? Then give it 0.5-1.5 less points for the art?

  16. #356
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    The reviewer did a good job of highlighting the high and lows about the game and gameplay. But was put off mostly by the NPCs clothing, giant boobs and poses (on top of the Sorceress and Amazon PCs) and gave it 1-2 less points because of it. The TB video does a good job explaining the difference between that review and another.


    And what is considered "mediocre?" 5? 8? 8.5?

    The wrap up:
    It got a 6.5 out of 10.

    Fun game with some dull grinding after you play through it some. So... 7.5 on gameplay? 8 at most, if even? Then give it 0.5-1.5 less points for the art?
    In today's review culture anything that isn't a 8.5 is mediocre and anything below that is terrible.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  17. #357
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    I give it two tits out of ten.
    Is not a leg.
    Frobnitz Ichor Liquor purveyors don't need compasses to tell which way the moon sounds.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    What is the proper way to score a game?
    A good start is to try to avoid giving scores based on things that just come down to personal taste. Although of course a review is going to be based on the reviewer's opinions, those opinions that are relevant are those that are about quality rather than taste. For instance, I don't like anime art styles. Should I be writing a serious review for an anime-style, I shouldn't incorporate that dislike into my score. My goal is to report my beliefs about the quality of a game, not about whether I actually like it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish
    In today's review culture anything that isn't a 8.5 is mediocre and anything below that is terrible.
    This is really something of a myth, as a glance at Metacritic will demonstrate.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  19. #359
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    I think that is how publishers treat Metacritic more so. Unless the game sold millions on the cheap.


    Is it really a art style if women have improbable jiggle boobs, half naked and exist in the background in suggestive poses? As with any Vanillaware game they have one of the best 2d sprite art, including the parts in Dragoncrown that do not consist of the above. But when add the above it is a rather put off. Odinsphere and Muramasa look wonderful.

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    Is it really a art style if women have improbable jiggle boobs, half naked and exist in the background in suggestive poses?
    Well, that's another question. I was just commenting on exactly what the editor said. Still, given that it's quite obvious to anyone looking at screenshots or watching trailers and videos, you still might not want to take into account whether it makes you unhappy. Unless you think the game is genuinely objectionable (that is, you think that people who like that sort of thing oughtn't play it). Otherwise, well, people know what they're getting into and they can adjust for the style themselves.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

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