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  1. #201
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post


    I WONDER WHAT THESE BOOBS MEAN? IT'S SUCH A MYSTERY!
    I'm more worried about what seems to be coming out of her bottom region. Is it bearded dwarf? A Newton's Cradle? Some sort of extreme vajazzle?
    Last edited by Skalpadda; 02-05-2013 at 05:28 PM.

  2. #202
    I don't think our friend is trying to excuse instances like that. I think he's more trying to point out that, yes, some women have large breasts for no reason other than a happenstance of genetics.

    My concern is that this would be difficult to do, especially with a medium as immature as video games.

    I was actually talking to a friend about this earlier today. I asked him, Can you think of a female video game character who happened to have a large bust that wasn't completely objectified in some way? Neither of us could.

    But what occurred to me afterwards is that it's perfectly possible that someone like Agrais Oaks from Final Fantasy Tactics could have had larger than average breasts without us ever knowing because she is in the unique position of having armor that actually makes sense. In her particular case her chest size would have absolutely nothing to do with her character, and her profession as a soldier in the military would basically ensure that it would never come up since she's always in full armor.

    I realized that if there are female video game characters out there who were great characters first things like their bust would not be terribly important or noteworthy. It seems to me that the only time we know for sure is when it's being shoved in our faces, and any designer who is taking this seriously knows that there are more important things to worry about.

  3. #203
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterstride View Post
    I don't think our friend is trying to excuse instances like that. I think he's more trying to point out that, yes, some women have large breasts for no reason other than a happenstance of genetics.

    My concern is that this would be difficult to do, especially with a medium as immature as video games.
    And I was agreeing with you, perhaps more vociferously than you yourself would have worded it.

    The difference is, each element of a depicted character in video games is the result of an active decision on the part of the game designers. With movies, you're relegated mostly to the physiology of the actors and actresses - where their bodies truly can be incidental to the drama.

    Here, you'd have to

    a) choose to make a boxum character
    b) justify your boxum character
    c) not use this element that you have chosen to make

    That's not normally in the credo of a designer: If you're defining something, simple conservation of effort means you're going to reference it. You could, I suppose, iteratively make random body types and just give them names, but such is not likely in anything outside of background NPCs in RPGs. Not for your supporting cast, and certainly not for your protagonists. Effectively, you'd be forcing them to make a boxum character for the expressed purpose of making a point about how her boxumness is not pertinent to her role.

    That's a bit more self-awareness than I'd give your average game designer, considering, well, their entire history thus far.

    EDIT: The problem with Elizabeth, consequently, wasn't her boobs - Ken Levine thankfully held their feet to the fire on that one - it was the fact that she was relegated to sidekick status in a story that was ostensibly about her.
    Last edited by Nalano; 03-05-2013 at 03:30 AM.
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Here, you'd have to

    a) choose to make a boxum character
    b) justify your boxum character
    c) not use this element that you have chosen to make

    That's not normally in the credo of a designer: If you're defining something, simple conservation of effort means you're going to reference it.
    Even then, 'big boobs' doesn't have to mean 'sex object'. Historically they also have an association with motherhood and fertility.

    Still, you might be getting at another point because, yes, as Winterstride said, the characters with massive boobs are generally objectified, but the characters with big boobs? That's most female characters in gaming, even the ones never objectified at all. Compared to real life averages, Commander Shepard has big boobs. That's just the default choice. Female characters happen all the time without thought being given to boob size, it's not as impossible as you think. It's just when there's no though, they go with 'big'.

  5. #205
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Even then, 'big boobs' doesn't have to mean 'sex object'. Historically they also have an association with motherhood and fertility.
    Historically, body fat and pale skin was a sign of wealth.



    Look'it them sugar mamas. Yowza.

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Still, you might be getting at another point because, yes, as Winterstride said, the characters with massive boobs are generally objectified, but the characters with big boobs? That's most female characters in gaming, even the ones never objectified at all. Compared to real life averages, Commander Shepard has big boobs. That's just the default choice. Female characters happen all the time without thought being given to boob size, it's not as impossible as you think. It's just when there's no though, they go with 'big'.
    You will very rarely find anybody with less than a C cup in gaming, and if you'll notice my afore-mentioned forum thread, you'll see that guys get really incensed when they're smaller than that.
    Last edited by Nalano; 03-05-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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  6. #206
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Look'it them sugar mamas. Yowza.
    Rubens would be all over them.

    You will very rarely find anybody with less than a C cup in gaming, and if you'll notice my afore-mentioned forum thread, you'll see that guys get really incensed when they're smaller than that.
    Faith from Mirrors Edge was hardly sporting a full rack
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  7. #207
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Faith from Mirrors Edge was hardly sporting a full rack
    Hence "rarely" and not "never"
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Hence "rarely" and not "never"
    Not to mention the infamous fan redesign...

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    You will very rarely find anybody with less than a C cup in gaming, and if you'll notice my afore-mentioned forum thread, you'll see that guys get really incensed when they're smaller than that.
    I was going to say that and it's definitely true with Western games, where it falls is apart is in Japanese stuff, especially RPGs. Of course, that's generally because those characters are being sexualised in a whole different way that fits with that culture...

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I was going to say that and it's definitely true with Western games, where it falls is apart is in Japanese stuff, especially RPGs. Of course, that's generally because those characters are being sexualised in a whole different way that fits with that culture...
    Japanese stuff is a pandoras box that we probably don't want to get into!

  11. #211
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I was going to say that and it's definitely true with Western games, where it falls is apart is in Japanese stuff, especially RPGs. Of course, that's generally because those characters are being sexualised in a whole different way that fits with that culture...
    I take it the words "Dragon Crown" bear little meaning to you?

  12. #212
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I was going to say that and it's definitely true with Western games, where it falls is apart is in Japanese stuff, especially RPGs. Of course, that's generally because those characters are being sexualised in a whole different way that fits with that culture...
    Last I checked, this was a character in a Japanese game:

    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  13. #213
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Last I checked, this was a character in a Japanese game:

    That one's OK. The daddy issues are written right into the plot!

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Last I checked, this was a character in a Japanese game:
    That's one. I'm not denying that the Japanese share the big-boob obsession of the West. It's just that they also have a small-boob / infantalism thing going on. Like Leanne from Resonance of Fate. She does get sexualised, but doesn't have a massive chest, and her younger-looking attributes are played up.

    Leanne1.jpg

  15. #215
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    That's one. I'm not denying that the Japanese share the big-boob obsession of the West. It's just that they also have a small-boob / infantalism thing going on. Like Leanne from Resonance of Fate. She does get sexualised, but doesn't have a massive chest, and her younger-looking attributes are played up.
    If you want to add Japanese creepy predilection towards pubescence to the discussion, go right ahead, but it's a tangent that won't necessarily add much to the discussion. After all,

    Last edited by Nalano; 04-05-2013 at 05:57 PM.
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  16. #216
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Let's also avoid from posting any more images related to it - loli/shota are illegal in the UK.
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  17. #217
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    Alright, I'm posting this here because for some reason I can't comment on articles. I don't know if the person who said this will ever see it because frankly I don't care, I just have to get this off my chest. This is a comment from the recent Rhianna Pratchett article.

    Quote Originally Posted by Focksbot
    *sigh* Let me explain to you the point that they have probably already tried to explain to you and which you’ve chosen to ignore because it doesn’t fit with your own biases.

    Sexism against men doesn’t exist. Because sexism, properly understood, is a society-wide systemic prejudice. There is no society-wide systemic prejudice against men.

    What does exist is individual cases of prejudice and stereotyping against men. These are largely harmless, or at least of limited consequence, because there’s no power axis backing them up, except in the very few areas of public life where women do dominate.
    There's no system-wide prejudice against men? EXCUSE me? The times it happens are HARMLESS? Have you ever even looked at resulting statistics of child custody battles? You think that a man being forbidden to raise his own child, and in some cases being forbidden to even SEE them is "harmless"? Or are you just talking out of your ass because you've never personally come across any system-wide instances of prejudice against men (probably because you never looked and just assumed that men were complaining about nothing)?

    Every single aspect of child-rearing is utterly prejudice against men and their position as father figures. Who do you think pays 97% of ALL alimony? Do you have any idea how many women get away with killing their own children vs. men? And where does society's prejudice in that instance come from considering that far more women DO kill their children than men?

    Yeah, maybe this is "one of the very few areas" in which women dominate, but it's one of the most important aspects of any society, and men are completely blocked out because we still stupidly perceive women to be inherently better at caring for children. And there are plenty of instances of prejudice just like this that you simply don't perceive and choose to ignore to make yourself feel better about your male-guilt that society is pushing on you. Don't worry, you're not actually a rapist just because society assumes you potentially are one.

  18. #218
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xora View Post
    Custody, Visitation, Alimony
    Most domestic violence cases have the woman as the victim. This may have a correlative effect on custody battles. Visitation rights, however, have been historically low for men (11% in 1976), but have since risen to about 40% in the States. For small children, the mother is indeed the better choice, although there is a detriment to the child's development if there is no father as the child grows up.

    Men statistically make more money than women - have better paying jobs and make more money in equal jobs - and women are thus more dependent on two incomes, especially when child-rearing. Women in poverty who have gotten pregnant are also more likely to have to raise their child alone due to the abandonment of the father. This would strongly account for the alimony payments.
    Last edited by Nalano; 06-05-2013 at 07:03 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  19. #219
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    No no, all mothers are conniving, gold-digging greedmonsters, first seducing the father (and probably fleecing him of funds during courtship) then using his rightful progeny-property as a prybar to his coffers.

    For shame, women. For shame.

    /edit: in a strange fit of synchronicity, the universe (aka soma.fm) just played Golddigger by the Supreme Beings of Leisure.
    Last edited by Jambe; 06-05-2013 at 09:08 PM.

  20. #220
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jambe View Post
    No no, all mothers are conniving, gold-digging greedmonsters, first seducing the father (and probably fleecing him of funds during courtship) then using his rightful progeny-property as a prybar to his coffers.

    For shame, women. For shame.
    I had to go through a full page of men's rights activism sites all copiously repeating one another's declarations before I could find a state agency with some actual freakin' statistics.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

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