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  1. #61
    Obscure Node deadlyhabit's Avatar
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    While I'm open to viewpoints, I must disclaim U'm an american, and reactions to rejoining my family were akin to this....


    It has nothing to do with social issues, but for those of you with a family, what is it important. Now that I'm backI can focus on issues like this, and HOPEFULLY make my daughters life a better place, but while her dad fights the fight
    If I'm called the patriarchy etc. feel free/ Just don't say I've never been on the front lines nor seen real women oppression.
    Last edited by deadlyhabit; 11-04-2013 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #62
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    Okay, some people get offended by such portrayals. So what?

  3. #63
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    But by that argument, as long as they only hire booth babes that want to dress that way, it becomes okay.

    My ultimate point is that most any issue that you have with booth babes regarding the effect that they have on other convention goers is going to exist to some degree with the more provocatively dressed cos-players.

    I'd just like to see a thoroughly laid out argument as to why zero tolerance on booth babes and the status quo with cos-players is the correct stance to take.
    Most conventions have rules regarding cosplayers and how skimpy their outfits can be (among other things, they also have rules against weapons and stuff that require any costume weaponry to be made of plastic or cardboard and things like that). If someone is violating those rules they ask them to leave and come back with more clothes on.

    I'm not a cosplayer but I've been to a lot of conventions and have read the rules and such (gotta read something while on the toilet in the hotel).

  4. #64
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    That was an odd non sequiter. Charming nonetheless...

    Found this while I was surfing about before:
    http://metagearsolid.org/2013/04/evi...lante-justice/

    It's the only blog post response to John that I've come across other than the one that accused him of being a "nature denier"

  5. #65
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    Okay, some people get offended by such portrayals. So what?
    No, you've got it all wrong. Nobody is actually offended, there are people who aren't offended and there are people who are offended by those people not being offended. The actual issue is irrelevant at this point.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Most conventions have rules regarding cosplayers and how skimpy their outfits can be (among other things, they also have rules against weapons and stuff that require any costume weaponry to be made of plastic or cardboard and things like that). If someone is violating those rules they ask them to leave and come back with more clothes on.

    I'm not a cosplayer but I've been to a lot of conventions and have read the rules and such (gotta read something while on the toilet in the hotel).
    I went and did a bit of a google search. I concentrated on PAX since they have gone the ban booth babes route and so I think they offer the most interesting contrast.

    I can find weapon rules, but no cosplay rules or code of conduct. Maybe they email it to you after you register or something.

    Apparently these are pre-ban PAX booth babes and needed to be got rid of:
    http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/wp-c...s/hpim1641.jpg
    http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/wp-c...s/hpim1592.jpg

    If the internet isn't lying to me these are post ban cosplayers and are okay:
    http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/upl...ighters-33.jpg
    http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/upl...ighters-43.jpg
    http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2013/03/...-fischer-pax5/

    The first two of these will apparently get you asked to change your outfit:
    http://cdn2.gamefront.com/wp-content...gricosplay.jpg

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    That was an odd non sequiter. Charming nonetheless...

    Found this while I was surfing about before:
    http://metagearsolid.org/2013/04/evi...lante-justice/

    It's the only blog post response to John that I've come across other than the one that accused him of being a "nature denier"
    That made my morning :)

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    That was an odd non sequiter. Charming nonetheless...

    Found this while I was surfing about before:
    http://metagearsolid.org/2013/04/evi...lante-justice/

    It's the only blog post response to John that I've come across other than the one that accused him of being a "nature denier"
    I lolled. Daniel Youtube! :D

  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Best piece of writing I've read in a long time.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

    Steam ID

  10. #70
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    I went and did a bit of a google search. I concentrated on PAX since they have gone the ban booth babes route and so I think they offer the most interesting contrast.

    I can find weapon rules, but no cosplay rules or code of conduct. Maybe they email it to you after you register or something.

    Apparently these are pre-ban PAX booth babes and needed to be got rid of:
    http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/wp-c...s/hpim1641.jpg
    http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/wp-c...s/hpim1592.jpg

    If the internet isn't lying to me these are post ban cosplayers and are okay:
    http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/upl...ighters-33.jpg
    http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/upl...ighters-43.jpg
    http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2013/03/...-fischer-pax5/

    The first two of these will apparently get you asked to change your outfit:
    http://cdn2.gamefront.com/wp-content...gricosplay.jpg
    I'm not really sure what your point is.

  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    His point is that PAX banned the use of booth babes at conventions, while allowing for cosplayers to go around wearing much more reviling clothes without issue. So PAX doesn't have an issue with women being sexy, just if they're there as an employee of some company.

    Seems a bit of a double standard or something. Can't have booth babes because they make people feel uncomfortable, but that chick walking around dressed as Poison or Witchblade or any girl from Dead or Alive is alright.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  12. #72
    Network Hub Dubbill's Avatar
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    It's not the way booth babes are dressed that's the issue, it's the way they are used. Booth babes say 'this is a male hobby, this convention is for men, women are here to be ogled'. Hiring them creates a creepy, strip club-lite atmosphere which is not inviting or inclusive to everyone.
    Open-faced sandwiches are upon you whether you would risk it or not.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    That was an odd non sequiter. Charming nonetheless...

    Found this while I was surfing about before:
    http://metagearsolid.org/2013/04/evi...lante-justice/

    It's the only blog post response to John that I've come across other than the one that accused him of being a "nature denier"
    Going back to this I have to say what's quite interesting is how he actually draws attention to how utterly tangental the two examples are in many ways when john talks about 'The industry'. Ones a youtube channel and the others some tech site. Hardly industry mainstays like Gamespot or IGN.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbill View Post
    It's not the way booth babes are dressed that's the issue, it's the way they are used. Booth babes say 'this is a male hobby, this convention is for men, women are here to be ogled'. Hiring them creates a creepy, strip club-lite atmosphere which is not inviting or inclusive to everyone.
    Even when they're not dressed like strippers? The couple of booth babe photos Vagabond linked to earlier on are hardly risque. I mean where's the cut off point as to what's acceptable clothing for a female in PR to wear without offending someone? Or should we flat out not have women PR at cons at all?
    Last edited by Kadayi; 11-04-2013 at 02:02 PM.

  14. #74
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    Unless there is a equal amount of booth hunks in attendance. Better off not having any booth models, but that will never happen. E3 lasted one year without the big booths and booth babes.

  15. #75
    Network Hub Dubbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Even when they're not dressed like strippers? The couple of booth babe photos Vagabond linked to earlier on are hardly risque. I mean where's the cut off point as to what's acceptable clothing for a female in PR to wear without offending someone? Or should we flat out not have women PR at cons at all?
    As I said, it's not the way they are dressed that is a problem. No one I know that is bothered by this is especially prudish and none of them give a second thought to cosplaying outfits.

    You've switched booth babes for PR for purposes of making a point. I think it's largely accepted that booth babes at gaming conventions are not hired for their knowledge of the product they are promoting. If they are there to share their expertise, haven't been obliged to wear an outfit they feel uncomfortable in and aren't expected to pose with leering nerds they probably don't qualify as a booth babe.
    Last edited by Dubbill; 11-04-2013 at 04:06 PM. Reason: missing word
    Open-faced sandwiches are upon you whether you would risk it or not.

  16. #76
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubbill View Post
    You've switched booth babes for PR for purposes of making a point. I think it's largely accepted that booth babes at gaming conventions are not hired for their knowledge of the product they are promoting. If they are there to share their expertise, haven't been obliged to wear outfit they feel uncomfortable in and aren't expected to pose with leering nerds they probably don't qualify as a booth babe.
    This: You've really just switched them from strippers to stewardesses.
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  17. #77
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    The thing that I can't fucking stand (And no, this isn't the "SHE'S ASKING FOR IT" defense) is when women dress in a sexy costume, parade themselves in front of a bunch of dudebros, and then complain when said dudebros make sexual remarks towards them. The latest incident I read about was some blog post from a woman at Crystal Dynamics, who hired a bunch of hot young models, dressed them up as Lara Croft (A character who was created solely to use sex to sell games to guys) and used them to attract dudebros at PAX to their Tomb Raider display. This woman was outraged, OUTRAGED, that a guy came up to them and asked them how it felt knowing that no man in that room could satisfy them in bed. She went on some tangent about how this is a typical male thing, and it needs to stop. It's not a male thing. Women do it too. Guys just don't care. If Channing Tatum went to an after party for some women's award show, and he was dressed in a tux, he would get hit on by quite a few of the ladies there. He might get one or two "inappropriate" remarks, but I bet things would be pretty tame for the most part. Now, if he goes to that same party wearing nothing but a speedo, don't you think the women would treat him differently? Wouldn't he get more comments about his package, since he is actively showcasing it in a speedo? How fucking stupid would he look if he complained that a woman asked to touch his abs while he strutted around shirtless?

    Now, was the guy who made the remark a complete tool? Absolutely. He should have just gone up to them, maybe posed for a picture with some hover hands, maybe told them they look beautiful, and left it at that. Having a room full of Lara Croft lookalikes purposely trying to lure in young men and then expecting those men to behave like perfect gentlemen is completely fucking stupid. That's like taking a chocolate cake into the mess hall at a fat camp and getting upset that the kids are eying it hungrily.

    /end rant
    "What were we talking about? Pegasuses, pegasii, that's horses with wings. This motherf*cker got a sword that talks to him. Motherf*cker live in places that don't exist, it comes with a map. My God."

  18. #78
    I think if you're going to exploit human physical beauty to sell a product, you probably have to objectify both genders equally to avoid the legitimate criticism that you're making certain people feel excluded based on their gender. I don't think it should surprise anyone that female attendees at big trade shows feel uncomfortable when they're confronted with attractive woman after attractive woman, who are there for no other reason than their aesthetic appeal to heterosexual men.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by db1331 View Post
    Women do it too.
    A few weeks ago, a friend of mine went to pick up his girlfriend from an Ann Summer's party (not sure where you're from, but Ann Summers is a mainstream sex-shop chain here in the UK) and was groped more than once. His girlfriend's friend's aunt, in her 50s, pinched his ass hard enough to leave a mark.
    Last edited by RandomTangent; 11-04-2013 at 03:44 PM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomTangent View Post
    A few weeks ago, a friend of mine went to pick up his girlfriend from an Ann Summer's party (not sure where you're from, but Ann Summers is a mainstream sex-shop chain here in the UK) and was groped more than once. His girlfriend's friend's aunt, in her 50s, pinched his ass hard enough to leave a mark.
    Exactly. I had a woman here at work one time press her tits around the back of my neck while I was working on her computer. I'm not talking about she tried to lean over and grab something off her desk and her boobs brushed me. I mean she put her hands on my shoulders and made me a neck pillow. Now, I didn't find her to be very attractive, so I just shrugged her off and sat forward. I didn't reprimand her, or go to HR and get her fired. Why? Because if I HAD been attracted to her, I would've turned around and motorboated the shit out of those puppies. If I did something similar to a woman at work who did not find me attractive (good chance at that), I'd be out on my ass that day
    "What were we talking about? Pegasuses, pegasii, that's horses with wings. This motherf*cker got a sword that talks to him. Motherf*cker live in places that don't exist, it comes with a map. My God."

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