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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    Being sexy and attractive are qualities that are solely defined by how other people perceive you. If you want to feel sexy and attractive, unless you are deluding yourself, you need to do things that make you the sort of person other people will look at and be turned on by. It's kind of the definition.
    This is why I won't change your mind in this discussion. Because you truly believe this, and I have neither the skill nor knowledge to convince you that you're wrong. But once you accept that that this isn't necessarily true, that women who are dressing 'sexy' aren't necessarily doing it for your benefit, the rest of my argument makes sense.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    It's not the creepers, though the creepers are bad enough. It's that everybody bends over backwards to cater to the creepers, lest the creepers feel uncomfortable.
    That link you posted was of guys creeping on women in their social circle and taking advantage of those group social links in order to get away with their disrespectful behaviour (don't mind Larry..he's harmless). It's a bit of a different ballgame from booth babes at a convention.

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    This is why I won't change your mind in this discussion. Because you truly believe this, and I have neither the skill nor knowledge to convince you that you're wrong. But once you accept that that this isn't necessarily true, that women who are dressing 'sexy' aren't necessarily doing it for your benefit, the rest of my argument makes sense.
    It's not about dressing for other people for their pleasure, it's about social affirmation. You might think you're 'the shit' but unless someone else (a friend, a lover, whomever) gives you thumbs up then you're really not likely to know (and even then that's no yardstick). Very few people have a clear perception of their physical self.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    This is why I won't change your mind in this discussion. Because you truly believe this, and I have neither the skill nor knowledge to convince you that you're wrong. But once you accept that that this isn't necessarily true, that women who are dressing 'sexy' aren't necessarily doing it for your benefit, the rest of my argument makes sense.
    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"

    Sexy: Provoking or intended to provoke sexual interest.

    In order to feel sexy, you have to do something that makes you actually be sexy. Otherwise you are a crazy person.

    In this case we agree (I assume) that by dressing in a revealing manner, you are doing something that can both a) make you feel sexy, and b) actually is sexy.

    You may well be doing this for the sole benefit of yourself, your significant other, or your dog, rather than J random man in the street. I am fully well aware of this possibility.

    However, because of the requirement "b) actually is sexy", people who see you are going to respond with some level of arousal and might even derive pleasure from looking at you.

    If you are offended or upset by the concept that someone outside of this small circle of friends, wellwishers and pets might see you and get aroused, then perhaps a convention of 70,000 people is not the place for you to be.



    Let me try and clarify "She is still a strange woman assuming that you want to look at her with hardly any clothes on..." a bit more.

    If I say, "She is a woman that you do not know making the assumption that people at the convention are okay with seeing her dressed the way she is dressed" does that help?

  4. #144
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post

    Sexy: Provoking or intended to provoke sexual interest.

    In order to feel sexy, you have to do something that makes you actually be sexy. Otherwise you are a crazy person.

    In this case we agree (I assume) that by dressing in a revealing manner, you are doing something that can both a) make you feel sexy, and b) actually is sexy.
    Errrrr minor point the definition of the word you provide directly contradicts the sentence afterwards. Also which person actually does the reciprocating about your being sexy? Does it have to be a statistically significant sample before you ARE sexy? As just having 1 person say your sexy, in this world of objective sexiness, seems to be poor sampling.

    I'd suggest that the expression of sexiness and the interpretation of sexiness are 2 separate things.

    Also things like Booth babes are demeaning in this situation because it's a corporation averaging out all the interesting difference of interpretation and individuality. It's not because the majority find them sexy, sexiness isn't a negative thing. But falsely flagging what norms should be to large groups for monetary gain, that's kinda shit.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    If you are offended or upset by the concept that someone outside of this small circle of friends, wellwishers and pets might see you and get aroused, then perhaps a convention of 70,000 people is not the place for you to be.
    ?
    Given there's porn sites out there that cater to people with a burka fetish, I think the entire argument is somewhat moot. There's probably someone out there who can get aroused by a plain brick wall if you look hard enough, so I doubt it's possible for anyone in any given state of dress or undress to be able to guarantee there isn't at least one person out there who'd be willing to ogle them over it.

    Goes back to the previous argument regarding inappropriate behaviour though. In any group of 70 000 people you're going to get a few who'll get a little to friendly with the models. You'll also get a few who'll stab someone for their Ipad too, yet it doesn't mean we need to ban the public display of Ipads to avoid it. The responsibility is on the individual to not commit criminal activity, not on the rest of society to ensure they cannot.

  6. #146
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    Given there's porn sites out there that cater to people with a burka fetish, I think the entire argument is somewhat moot. There's probably someone out there who can get aroused by a plain brick wall if you look hard enough, so I doubt it's possible for anyone in any given state of dress or undress to be able to guarantee there isn't at least one person out there who'd be willing to ogle them over it..
    Yup.
    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    Goes back to the previous argument regarding inappropriate behaviour though. In any group of 70 000 people you're going to get a few who'll get a little to friendly with the models. You'll also get a few who'll stab someone for their Ipad too, yet it doesn't mean we need to ban the public display of Ipads to avoid it. The responsibility is on the individual to not commit criminal activity, not on the rest of society to ensure they cannot.
    If hired floozies are provided to lavish attention on these social retards, then their behavior is reinforced in such a way that they will continue to do so. A robber is sent to jail for his crime.

  7. #147
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    If hired floozies are provided to lavish attention on these social retards, then their behavior is reinforced in such a way that they will continue to do so. A robber is sent to jail for his crime.
    Then don't reinforce it, problem solved.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  8. #148
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Then don't reinforce it, problem solved.
    And yet here we are, with people still trying to deny the very existence of the issue. Baby steps, soldant.

  9. #149
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    If hired floozies are provided to lavish attention on these social retards, then their behavior is reinforced in such a way that they will continue to do so. A robber is sent to jail for his crime.
    You send the robber away from the crime, not the person who left their car open with a laptop in the back seat.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    You send the robber away from the crime, not the person who left their car open with a laptop in the back seat.
    If you were mugged, but you knew that reporting that mugging to police would mean losing your job, would you do it?

  11. #151
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    If you were mugged, but you knew that reporting that mugging to police would mean losing your job, would you do it?
    Am I mugged down an alley way or in my place of work? I would hope the second one would mean my employer would help. The problem isn't with booth babes, its with how people, employers and attendees are treating them.

    They are the car owner that get's broken into, they're the girl who gets told "you were asking for it in that dress". Why are they the ones losing jobs and being told no, when the real issue is with other people, primarily men who act like idiots and show no respect.

    Let's not pretend that at trade shows and cons there's not thousands of other people around that witness events. And lets also not pretend that these shows don't sell out or pack their house out. Throwing out 20 people acting like frat-bros from the show floor and banning them isn't going to send your show into a downward spiral.

    You go to a ball game and a drunk dude starts a fight with the peanut guy. Who do you eject? The peanut guy or the drunk dude? You throw out the drunk guy.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    A robber is sent to jail for his crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    You send the robber away from the crime, not the person who left their car open with a laptop in the back seat.
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    If you were mugged, but you knew that reporting that mugging to police would mean losing your job, would you do it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    You go to a ball game and a drunk dude starts a fight with the peanut guy. Who do you eject? The peanut guy or the drunk dude? You throw out the drunk guy.

    I for one, am enjoying analogy tennis!

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    If you were mugged, but you knew that reporting that mugging to police would mean losing your job, would you do it?
    Presumption ..again?

  14. #154
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Am I mugged down an alley way or in my place of work? I would hope the second one would mean my employer would help. The problem isn't with booth babes, its with how people, employers and attendees are treating them.

    They are the car owner that get's broken into, they're the girl who gets told "you were asking for it in that dress". Why are they the ones losing jobs and being told no, when the real issue is with other people, primarily men who act like idiots and show no respect.

    Let's not pretend that at trade shows and cons there's not thousands of other people around that witness events. And lets also not pretend that these shows don't sell out or pack their house out. Throwing out 20 people acting like frat-bros from the show floor and banning them isn't going to send your show into a downward spiral.

    You go to a ball game and a drunk dude starts a fight with the peanut guy. Who do you eject? The peanut guy or the drunk dude? You throw out the drunk guy.
    Consider the number of gamers at these shows that have zero interaction with women outside of the lascivous portrayals in fiction and at trade shows. They need psychiatric help, not positive reinforcement.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Consider the number of gamers at these shows that have zero interaction with women outside of the lascivous portrayals in fiction and at trade shows. They need psychiatric help, not positive reinforcement.
    Generalize much?

  16. #156
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    There you go with that victimization bullshit again. Zero sympathy. Don't call women cunts and sluts and tell them to make you a sandwich and expect pity. And I find it hard to believe that you've never met anyone like that.
    Last edited by sabrage; 24-04-2013 at 10:33 AM.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    There you go with that victimization bullshit again. Zero sympathy. Don't call women cunts and sluts and tell them to make you a sandwich and expect pity. And I find it hard to believe that you've never met anyone like that.
    Whose victimizing anyone? You're simply painting everyone with the same broad brush. It's a frankly simplistic and unrealistic world viewpoint.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 24-04-2013 at 10:45 AM.

  18. #158
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Even if one in one hundred gamers is like that (and I suspect the number is far larger, but any organized study would cause so much cognitive dissonance that the results would look like a Scanners montage) the net detrimental effect is readily apparent the second a woman turns her mic on in a public server.

  19. #159
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Consider the number of gamers at these shows that have zero interaction with women outside of the lascivous portrayals in fiction and at trade shows. They need psychiatric help, not positive reinforcement.
    Man, you're straight out of the 80s aren't you? Gaming has moved on, and I'm not convinced those stereotypes were ever accurate even at the height of their reign.

    Booth babes are harassed for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because their mere presence creates a sexually charged atmosphere in a place which has no business doing that, and when harassment happens the trade shows seem to do very little to discourage it. And this isn't even taking into account how women, half our world's population, feel about it.
    Last edited by Drake Sigar; 24-04-2013 at 11:23 AM.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    (and I suspect the number is far larger, but any organized study would cause so much cognitive dissonance that the results would look like a Scanners montage)
    Your fear of actual surveys is endearing

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