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Thread: Boston Bombing

  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    If you don't have an example for your accusations, then they're strawmen.
    Not everything needs to be an argument or accusation. I'd seen people making certain comments on other sites and hoped anyone planning to do the same here would think about it first. Perhaps it was unnecessary.

    And I'm sorry if it was unclear, but my reasons given for skewed media coverage were from the perspective of UK & US english language news. I'd imagine news outlets that focus on the Middle East do in fact give more coverage to events like bombings in Baghdad.

    Again, I am not supporting those reasons. I am not saying we shouldn't care what's happening in the Baghdad. I am putting forward reasons why many people don't.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    People consuming English language news MOST LIKELY know more Bostonians than Baghdad-... ishers?
    I've known two Americans (both exchange students) IRL while a quick count gave me ~20 classmates and co-workers from the middle east, many of them Iraqis who came here as refugees from the Iran-Iraq war, the first gulf war or Kurds fleeing from Saddam. My thoughts when reading about this was first "oh that's terrible" followed by "I hope some American nutter(s) did it and not a foreigner".

    I think seeing an explosion in a street that looks a lot like the ones where you live is just more immediately shocking than yet another explosion in a war-torn Bhagdad. One is surprised horror and the other is despairing horror.

  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    I never said that the news reporting was not understandable to an extent, they're just supplying what people want. What I find odd is that viewers, those consuming the news not driving it, are genuinely shocked/upset/crying etc. over this. Presumably because of the human tragedy and their strong empathy for the people who died, something I don't really share personally but I'm part robot.

    The same people don't really seem to make the same emotional reaction about Iraq, or various other deaths around the world.

    To me that's the point, but as a British person I find public grieving distasteful.

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelron View Post
    And I'm sorry if it was unclear, but my reasons given for skewed media coverage were from the perspective of UK & US english language news.
    In other words: At best ethnocentrism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    What I find odd is that viewers, those consuming the news not driving it, are genuinely shocked/upset/crying etc. over this.


    My biggest peeve about the sorts of comments showing up on the websites for the NYTimes and Boston Globe website is that the sorts of insinuations that this attack was not only shocking but unprecedented are not only highly myopic but also intellectually dishonest.

    A more sober reflection would be to start listing the sorts of groups who would have motive to do such a thing but then that might depress those "we'll pray for the victims" types should they see just how long that list is.

    I'll say the same thing I said when NYC got attacked, and as somebody who lives in the A Number One target for terrorism in the United States: We don't live in a vacuum, and divining the cause is a whole lot more healthy in the long run than wringing our hands over the symptom.
    Last edited by Nalano; 17-04-2013 at 03:53 AM.
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  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    Fuck whoever did it. I wish I could find then myself. They deserve suffering.

  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    I never said that the news reporting was not understandable to an extent, they're just supplying what people want. What I find odd is that viewers, those consuming the news not driving it, are genuinely shocked/upset/crying etc. over this. Presumably because of the human tragedy and their strong empathy for the people who died, something I don't really share personally but I'm part robot.

    The same people don't really seem to make the same emotional reaction about Iraq, or various other deaths around the world.

    To me that's the point, but as a British person I find public grieving distasteful.


    For me I only did this after reading the Hulk thing because it basically put a human face on what is a news story, same with those reports I see in Syria they really bum me out because they put a human face on something I can only really barely conceive. If there was human stories like this that I saw I probably would feel bad for Baghdad as well.

    Also yeah a bomb in Boston is a lot mroe rarer then a bomb in Baghdad so one will get a few seconds on the news while another will get a whole week i'm afraid.

    Also shame on people saying 3 deaths are nothing also its not just deaths people also had blown limbs and very heavy injuries, yes I get we should care about all tragedies but come on I am actually a bit sickened at the level of flippancy in this thread.

  7. #47
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    In other words: At best ethnocentrism.
    This reads like you're implying "At worse: racism" directed at me. Am I wrong? I don't want to go to the trouble of getting annoyed and responding if I'm wrong.

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelron View Post
    This reads like you're implying "At worse: racism" directed at me. Am I wrong? I don't want to go to the trouble of getting annoyed and responding if I'm wrong.
    At worst, willful ignorance.

    But I already answered this statement with a link in a previous post.
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  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    Are you defending Timothy McVeigh, Mr. squirrel?
    Oh, no. He is a cold blood murderer, that's for sure. I just want to point out that people think we care only what happen in the USA as if it is the center of the universe. We are not. There are many bombings in America in 90s but we dont give a damn as long as they were militia crimes, America's own internal affairs, except for this one and maybe one which bombed the World Trade Centre in early 90s, the first bombing of Al Qaeda against the buildings, hence an international event.

    But I must still say that the poor soul is so handsome. Can't believe guy as handsome as him would do something crazy like that. And I actually don't know his true name back then. I was in the middle school, with English level not sufficient to read English news (my English is still not good, but at least I can read most English news reports by myself) so I only learnt his name translated in Chinese, Mak Kak Wah something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    Squirrel, you have such a simplistic worldview that it makes me doubt whether it's just bullheadedness and not indicative of the general state of affairs in China.
    You know what? I used to think it to be noble to denote to UNICEF, not anymore these days. For Africa, if you realise that its the warlords, the local people fighting among themselves, our help won't change anything. Some stupid leftists advocate sending western / any voluntary powers' militaries to police them. Go fxxk themselves. Why soldiers should risk themselves in such unprofitable missions? They take oath to defend their subjects, not those greedy savages. If they fight for cheap oil, at least they fight for something.

    Kinda fun to watch those poor nations perish in their own guilt. It's kinda fun to watch, especially on CNN with those hypocritical journalists crying for them.

    And sad to learn that a Chinese student majoring in acturial science is still missing in the incident. That's probably why some Chineses would care about this event if you may wonder.

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    BTW there is some interesting legal opinion why US government is trying to tone down the incident. Yeah, why we don't call those campus shootings terrorist acts?
    Last edited by squirrel; 17-04-2013 at 02:04 PM.

  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    But I must still say that the poor soul is so handsome. Can't believe guy as handsome as him would do something crazy like that.
    these casual non sequiturs are one of the reasons i always read your posts with thoroughness and anticipation, mr. squirrel :) you are one of the few things on the internet that consistently surprises me, highlighting details that elude most people

    *ThumbsUp*
    Last edited by Berzee; 17-04-2013 at 02:40 PM.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    At worst, willful ignorance.

    But I already answered this statement with a link in a previous post.
    I'm struggling to understand why you take my posts as indication of prejudice or ignorance on my part. We were discussing western media and its focus on western events. I don't need to talk about reasons why, for example, Arabic language news ignores bombings in Baghdad - because they don't (probably, I can't actually read Arabic).

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelron View Post
    I'm struggling to understand why you take my posts as indication of prejudice or ignorance on my part. We were discussing western media and its focus on western events. I don't need to talk about reasons why, for example, Arabic language news ignores bombings in Baghdad - because they don't (probably, I can't actually read Arabic).
    Oh, I dunno.

    Wait, yes I do.

    How is Iraq not a Western event? Why is Boston's tragedy more tragic?

    Don't tell me "because people expect there to be bombs in Baghdad," because Baghdad wasn't known for terrorist bombings until we went there.

    Don't tell me "because people know people there," because I live in a city that was wracked with a terrorist attack too. I watched as the nation went from "fuck those gay communist foreigners who can't even speak English" to "oh we love our brothers on the East Coast" to "fuck those gay communist foreigners who oppose our war" inside of a month. I watched as they glossed over what New Yorkers - y'know, people who were actually affected - thought about the attacks and the nation's reaction to the point where they were angrily dictating to New Yorkers how they should feel about the attacks and the nation's reaction.

    "Us vs them" is a tribal sense, and this attack is only highlighting who counts as "us" and who counts as "them" in the eyes of certain sectors of the public. In that sense I am telling you that it is not "because Western Media is telling its viewers what to think" but instead it is "because viewers are telling Western Media what to report," and you have to wonder just who those viewers are that are being catered to and why they care. In that sense I am indeed calling you prejudiced and ignorant.
    Last edited by Nalano; 17-04-2013 at 06:35 PM.
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  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    The occupational hazards of reporting in Baghdad far exceed those of working in their own backyard. Not every reporter wants to go work for Vice (though the fact that an entertainment enterprise is one of the few US-based outlets doing so is fucking sobering.) Out of sight, out of mind.

    A more cynical man than I might point out that it's hard to sell fear when it's happening half a world away.
    Last edited by sabrage; 17-04-2013 at 07:04 PM.

  14. #54
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    ... the fact that an entertainment enterprise is one of the few US-based outlets doing so is fucking sobering ...
    Sorry, but that's not a fact.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    (though the fact that an entertainment enterprise is one of the few US-based outlets doing so is fucking sobering.)
    As Jon Stewart has repeatedly pointed out, what they are doing at the Daily Show is decidedly not news reporting.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Things
    I'm honestly not sure how I can express myself more clearly, I'll give it one last try.

    I was entering into the discussion of why the western media reporting is biased. I suggested some reasons I consider possible causes of the bias.

    I was not agreeing with, justifying or otherwise approving of those reasons. You are responding as if I am and calling me names.

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    I think there's definitely an extent to which personal contextual reasoning affect response to tragedy, it can't just be reduced to a rational examination of numbers. I personally had more of a reaction to Boston than I normally do to such news because I

    a) am a runner and have run marathons, I know people who run marthons (and had to do a mental check if anyone I knew was in Boston or not
    b) had visited the WTC tribute center/memorial the day before and had a much more heightened sense of the personal stories in these sort of situations than I'd maybe have when, say, attempting to brush off a Saturday morning hangover.

    Of course with reflection I've got something in common with people in other tragedies that have had less of an emotional effect (we're both human for a start) and if you put your mind to it you can always attempt to imagine just how horrible something is. But at the time, those things reinforced my thoughts from a more standard "that's awful" type response to something a bit more.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    Sorry, but that's not a fact.
    I feel like you're missing the forest for the trees. Having a camera on the scene gives a direct, visual connection to the fear instilled by the attack. There's been a significant downturn in installments of embedded journalists since we pulled out in 2011, and so American's correlation with Iraq is still largely based in an era when they were "the enemy" because they no longer have to look at it.

    Pic related. You bet your ass that Iraq heard about Boston.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    As Jon Stewart has repeatedly pointed out, what they are doing at the Daily Show is decidedly not news reporting.
    Of course not. But he raises the level of mainstream discourse in a way that a traditional news program never could.

    I do agree that a large part of it is our culture of American exceptionalism, and that's a sad thing. If the Boston bombings raise awareness of worldwide terrorism, it would almost be a net win.
    Last edited by sabrage; 18-04-2013 at 05:10 AM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Personally, I look at the event and shrug it off, such is the nature of these things and the commonality of them. I don't know if I previously mentioned it here or on another forum, but I've seen people actually say "Holy Shit...only hearing news about this Boston attack now! I thought the days of bombing were over, I can honestly say that I truly feel sick after hearing (and seeing the pictures!)"

    Emphasis is mine. This is from a person who lives in a country that has had a long and bloody history with a neighbour, in which more civilians were killed through the use of bombs than any other victims combined. And which to this day still has a bomb squad that is kept on very active duty.
    Okay, after seeing today's paper which had four fucking pages covering this incident, yea, now I do get your point. The media really is being very melodramatic about it.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelron View Post
    I'm honestly not sure how I can express myself more clearly, I'll give it one last try.

    I was entering into the discussion of why the western media reporting is biased. I suggested some reasons I consider possible causes of the bias.

    I was not agreeing with, justifying or otherwise approving of those reasons. You are responding as if I am and calling me names.
    I wasn't necessarily saying you were accepting, agreeing, or justifying those reasons. I'm saying those aren't the full reasons. I'm calling into question your analysis, not your complicity.

    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Of course not. But he raises the level of mainstream discourse in a way that a traditional news program never could.
    We need more columnists worth following. Paul Krugman is informative, but Mencken and Liebling were informative and entertaining.
    Last edited by Nalano; 18-04-2013 at 05:54 PM.
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