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  1. #1

    [VS] TACGIR 18/04/13 After Action Report

    Post up your thoughts and feedback in here.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Ouch there was already a thread for AARs, meant to keep the number of threads down. Not sure if people like that concept, though.

  3. #3
    I figured as this was our first TACGIR with new comms we could have a dedicated thread.

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    Squads and individuals should be more willing to bugger off and do their own thing when orders are still forthcoming/they're bored out of their skull.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GinSoakedBoy View Post
    I figured as this was our first TACGIR with new comms we could have a dedicated thread.
    Good idea, that.

    Edit: we had some toothing problems with the new comms setup, and I had to spend more time than I had wished, getting channels up and getting people acquainted with the system, but it's all much better now!

    We agreed that we will remove the whisper links between ROs, so comms go only from PL to all ROs, and from each RO to PL. Correct?

    We also agreed that platoon staff was not a good place to be. So, remove that, and just pull any channel the PL wants to play with into the Platoon Leader channel. Squad channels are already set to refuse shouts from PL, so only SL and RO will hear the command comms. Correct?

    We also agreed that clearer directions for ROs is needed. SLs seem to know what to do, it is a rather clearly defined role, whereas RO is not. So pitch in with feedback in the outfit guide thread, where I've made some guide posts. Here!
    Last edited by EsotericReverie; 18-04-2013 at 10:57 PM.

  6. #6
    I think tonight went really well, there were a few teething problems but generally the new comms worked great. SLs co-ordinated well and MrEclectic did a great job of leading. Having an air force was awesome too. We should definitely collect all the guides on the forum into the main outfit Google doc so that there is only one single place for people to look for all guides.

    For the RO guide having a few examples or even some standard operating procedures for what to say would be great.

    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    Squads and individuals should be more willing to bugger off and do their own thing when orders are still forthcoming/they're bored out of their skull.
    Orders definitely could have been more forthcoming, but if people did bugger off it would take longer to gather up a squad to move out.

    I'm quite keen to try being PL with TACGIR.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus pakoito's Avatar
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    That 10 minutes cap was eternal. Everything else worked fine, we won everywhere we went to today in a swift way.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GinSoakedBoy View Post
    I think tonight went really well, there were a few teething problems but generally the new comms worked great. SLs co-ordinated well and MrEclectic did a great job of leading. Having an air force was awesome too. We should definitely collect all the guides on the forum into the main outfit Google doc so that there is only one single place for people to look for all guides.

    For the RO guide having a few examples or even some standard operating procedures for what to say would be great.
    Scary how we both referred to this as "teething problems" though you probably got the spelling right... Anyway, the outfit guide thread on the forum is a place to start compiling things for the actual guide doc, so start with feeding back in there.


    Quote Originally Posted by GinSoakedBoy View Post
    I'm quite keen to try being PL with TACGIR.
    I'd like to see that! Tell me, why aren't you in the outfit anyway, playing with us as much as you are and everything?

  9. #9
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    Good idea, that.

    Edit: we had some toothing problems with the new comms setup, and I had to spend more time than I had wished, getting channels up and getting people acquainted with the system, but it's all much better now!

    We agreed that we will remove the whisper links between ROs, so comms go only from PL to all ROs, and from each RO to PL. Correct?

    We also agreed that platoon staff was not a good place to be. So, remove that, and just pull any channel the PL wants to play with into the Platoon Leader channel. Squad channels are already set to refuse shouts from PL, so only SL and RO will hear the command comms. Correct?

    We also agreed that clearer directions for ROs is needed. SLs seem to know what to do, it is a rather clearly defined role, whereas RO is not. So pitch in with feedback in the outfit guide thread, where I've made some guide posts. Here!
    Correct on all accounts! I think this system, given a little bit of time, will become a great asset. For that reason I don't think we should fiddle that much with it for a while while, as changing system details every other week or so just makes it difficult to adjust.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Agreed. No fiddling. I just want to set up a few more channels so that we don't end up as tonight, with me having to make more channels on the fly, to accommodate all players. We had much more than the regular 50ish yesterday. Fun!

    I'd also like to set up channels for the rest of the outfit and get them connected, so that anyone can benefit from the new system, and to get TACGIR channels connected to irregular channels. The aim is for anyone to be able to take the same set of bindings and having them do the same thing no matter whether they play in TACGIR or not.

    The air group might need more too, not sure. And CMaster'plan for TANKGIR needs some channels too.
    Last edited by EsotericReverie; 19-04-2013 at 07:51 AM.

  11. #11
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    I only logged on for 30 minutes but in that time I piloted my first gal drop from a separate air squad. I really didn't like not being able to talk to the people in the gal and I didn't get clear orders on the exact point to do the drop. Could probably be fixed by making sure proximity chat is working, I think that's something the air squad and at least SLs should ensure (it'd also help bomber co-ordination).

    Felt a bit cheated that I pulled a gal, made 1 drop over an already secure base, and then it wasn't needed any more. A waste of a lot of air resources that would have been essential if I'd been online for longer. Not sure what to make of that, maybe it's just the way of things.

    It didn't help I had it set to 'platoon only' for a while either, but that's my own fault.

    Still, I'd like to persevere in the air squad, it should be interesting once I get a longer play session in.

  12. #12
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    Bravo RO last night. It didn't really work for me. Some of last night, I had two people talking at the same time, which is what I expect as a RO. However, the rest of the time, it was more than two people. As far as complaints about the lack of sitreps and such, I agree entirely that I didn't do enough on that, but it wasn't because I didn't know what I was doing. I couldn't work out when the platoon leader channel was clear to report in and didn't want to step on other people.

    The air squad was beautiful though. They shouldn't be wasted on galaxies. Suicide is a far better option to get one of those. Having the air filled with friendly death made taking enemy locations far easier, though I am curious whether it can be maintained when the opposition flies in strength.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    How about we skip gals then and just have the airfolk go CAS.

    Regarding RO etc I think it is very much time we go full time call in system (like on call to arms) as that solves all issues with that system. Seeing as SLs have a direct line to eachother now there should be more cohesion anyway. It is VERY VERY VERY important unit SL talk is very short and does not get chatty. It got chatty for about 5 minutes last night and that can't ever happen, and I did tell people to stop.

    When using SL to SL comms like "delta to alpha, you got a sunderer?" think before you speak, take a maximum of 5 seconds to speak if we are in battle and use it for stuff as "go attack B, we will take C and cover you". If out of battle, keep it to 10 seconds or so and coordinate transport and such things. If it's more macro stuff or involves the PL, it should go through your RO.

    This way ROs can also care about the macro level and not the micro and focus on receiving orders, requesting orders, requesting reinforcements and most importantly - this is what the RO should do at all times - give sitreps.

    A good way for ROs to call in to PL is following:
    "Delta to PL, sitrep"
    "Delta to PL, new orders"
    These two should be responded with either Delta GO/HOLD by PL and nothing else. Then the Delta RO gives a sitrep or explains that our objective is taken (this should be called in 1-2 minutes before cap) without resistance and we're ready to move.

    "Delta to PL, arrived" is another potential message that should jsut be thrown in without asking permission to speak. That's just sort of an update for the PL so he/she knows where that squad is.

    Should I consolidate this stuff somewhere? And is Cooper getting submod soon? We need to clean up this forum real bad.
    Last edited by RIDEBIRD; 19-04-2013 at 09:48 AM.
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  14. #14
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    The air squad was beautiful though. They shouldn't be wasted on galaxies. Suicide is a far better option to get one of those. Having the air filled with friendly death made taking enemy locations far easier, though I am curious whether it can be maintained when the opposition flies in strength.
    I agree. Gal's might be better kept for inter-squad use. Easier to coordinate with radio unless we have a proper radio setup but that might complicate the Mumble-side of things further?

    As for air in general I've already said several times that I'd love to get a proper air squad going and I know there have been/are several other interested parties as well (not sure who exactly). Should we start another thread about air squad I wonder or discuss it via Mumble/PM's? I've unfortunately missed all the initial TACGIR events this week so not sure how it has been organized so far.
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Less threads will be better, we need to clean up the forum and consolidate info real bad. Everything is everywhere and it's a bit of a mess. Just take it in the main TACGIR thread.
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  16. #16
    I think the taking territory side of things went well for a ghost cap. However from my point of view in the air squad I was bored wittless. I think I got to kill two enemy infantry the whole time I was online. The one time there was any air around was when I got insta-gibbed by a lib with the tankbuster before I even knew he was there.

    I feel having that much air just sitting around waiting for something to do is a bit of a waste. It may work out to be more fun if the air squad has it's own objectives, even just harrassing bases away from our main push. If we're needed we can always be there in under a minute anyway. Having a couple of scythes with the main force would be good, but when we have that many ESFs we should be doing something useful with them and not hovering around getting bored.

    As an additional note, squad/platoon waypoints need to be put down ASAP, there were several times when I was waiting for something to do, due to confusion with the comms, we could hear the command chat, so it was rather difficult to know where we were supposed to be and what we were supposed to be doing. Having the waypoints down would help a lot as at least we would know where we were needed and could just kill some stuff while we wait for more explicit orders.

    To sum up my experiences, we had some problems but with practice this set up could work really well.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    A good way for ROs to call in to PL is following:
    "Delta to PL, sitrep"
    "Delta to PL, new orders"
    These two should be responded with either Delta GO/HOLD by PL and nothing else. Then the Delta RO gives a sitrep or explains that our objective is taken (this should be called in 1-2 minutes before cap) without resistance and we're ready to move.

    "Delta to PL, arrived" is another potential message that should jsut be thrown in without asking permission to speak. That's just sort of an update for the PL so he/she knows where that squad is.

    Should I consolidate this stuff somewhere? And is Cooper getting submod soon? We need to clean up this forum real bad.
    I really like that. We could also try something like:

    "PL to all squad, sitrep" - Then each squad replies in order Alpha, Bravo etc
    OR
    "PL to Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, sitrep"

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Yeah, better that the PLs say "PL to Alpha, sitrep" and then "PL to Bravo, sitrep" after alpha, etc etc. Otherwise I fear people may just start going out of order, especially with multiple platoons.

    I'll do a quick brief on proper comms usage on sundays training thing.
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  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mrpier's Avatar
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    Listen, Think, Speak was the comms-mantra from the army. :-) Sometimes I've heard it expressed as listen hundred times, think thousand times, speak once.

  20. #20
    Lesser Hivemind Node sketchseven's Avatar
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    Caveat: I've only lead twice, and I'm relatively new.

    As a platoon lead I'd like to be able to call on ROs individually, have them report in individually as the situation requires. I can call on an RO for a sitrep easily enough, especially if I'm only talking to the RO:

    PL "Bravo sitrep please?"
    RO "On objective, minimal resistance, securing now"

    or

    RO "Bravo to Platoon"
    PL "Go ahead."
    RO "Meeting heavy resistance and require support"
    PL "Copy that Bravo."

    and then PL takes charge of sorting out support or changing plans if everyone's getting hit hard. The inter-communication flows from PL to RO to SL to squads and back again. Once you get a selection of good SLs and good ROs who aren't having technical problems and know what's expected of them, this system will just get slicker and slicker.

    "Delta is on site" or "Charlie objective complete in 30 seconds" are useful bits of information to throw out, but as a PL I do spend a large amount of my time in the map looking at how things are going as a whole anyway, and with the new changes to how information is displayed on the map you'd probably be able to keep on top of that as a PL more easily now as well.

    On another note - having the air squad was fantastic; as we're so used to being swarmed by Mosquitos and Reavers, seeing that many Scythes up in the air and chasing off enemy attackers was great. It also means that infantry and tanks can focus on killing other infantry and tanks rather than having to worry about air defence.

    I definitely think the air squad shouldn't be used for taxi service though. Yes there's a lead time if a squad member has to drop back to a Warpgate or Tech Plant to pull a galaxy, but hopefully SL should know where he's going before he's finished his current objective and can call for someone to drop back and pull transport before they have to move out (in an ideal world, of course ... and if the PL is on his game!).

    Unless we're doing a platoon sized gal drop on a large facility, having SLs worry about how they get from where they are to where they need to be seems like the best option (with guidance from PL if required, but to assume that the SL will take the lead unless told otherwise:

    PL to RO: "OK, great work on capping X - next objective is Y."
    RO to SL "PL says we're awesome and we're going to cap Y next."
    SL thinks: we can get there by sundy / we need a gal to get in there
    SL to squad "Great stuff guys, once the cap is done I want everyone to gather on the squad waypoint. Need one volunteer to pull a sundy / drop back to warp gate and pull a gal."
    Nine times out of ten you'll get someone volunteering. So SL takes care of the how, PL takes care of the where (and can also advise the SL of how quickly the how needs to get done if that's important).

    Keeping the air squad flying close air support and combat air patrols gives us a great option in the air, not just for defending ground forces, but also for interdicting enemy action against us - e.g. we are taking a tech plant, we have all four squads committed, we have CAS hunting out enemy sundies around the base and CAP a bit further out hunting down enemy reinforcements etc. (I have visions of enemy Gal drops being destroyed on route etc.)

    I got online after the comms teething problems had been sorted out (up until the point Eclectic blue-screened), and had GinSoaked and Skumbly for SL and RO - felt like both knew what they were doing and kept things moving, but we had the unfortunate experience of getting to the fight late or not being able to get into the fight at all.

    Something more game-related for the PL to bear in mind - Alpha and Charlie are getting a lot of fighting done, Bravo's been off on a ghost cap for a while. Let's have Bravo and Delta take the lead on the next big fight and have Charlie ghost that outpost to the south ... or whatever.

    So yeah ... this post turned out to be really long.
    Last edited by sketchseven; 19-04-2013 at 11:41 AM. Reason: added some stuff...

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