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  1. #21
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    Pulling out the weapons, medkit and armour chat doesn't really work because different things are desired for different classes. A Solstice SF for example is piss-poor on a LA, but excellent on an Engineer. A medkit is useless for an Engineer (because they're carrying mines) but dreamy on a HA.

    Also this is a bit of a tangent but: we probably shouldn't be recommending Nanoweave to newbies except if they're a HA. Nanoweave 3 is a 15% boost to health, which is 75hp, which is half a bullet. Thanks to the bugginess in damage reporting on the killscreen, you will never have a death in which you think "Damn, if I had Nanoweave 3 that wouldn't have happened".

    Flak Armor 3, in contrast, is a 30% reduction in all explosive damage. Now that isn't as useful as it was before the spawn room updates, but it does mitigate some of the most irritating parts of the game - dying in one hit from mines, from grenades, from tank shells, from bombers and (somewhat) rocket barrages. Newbies who wander round in Flak Armour are, I think, significantly less likely to quit the game in disgust.

    In the HA case you've got your resist shield which, as of last patch, no longer stacks with Flak Armour
    Last edited by cfftble; 24-04-2013 at 02:21 PM.

  2. #22
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    Honestly, I think I'd like to see a quicker, simpler "What is good" guide, that covers quickly some of the best buys for SC and certs, rather than what we have at the moment.
    Which probably means that their shouldn't even be a flash section, for example. Sundie says "get AMS, maybe Mineguard". Etc.

    Alternativley, might be possible to have this working on the website so that each class/vehicle section expands out.

    I'd like to see the equipment and cert guides integrated at least I think. The separation just leads to confusion.

  3. #23
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    Nah, you gotta let newbies make their own choices as to what's fun. All we can do is tell them how to maximize that fun. When they've got a thousand certs or so under their belt, then we can start recommending they get squad beacons and AMSs and radar and Galaxy frames.

    Also I'm a fan of a long-form universal guide too, but qaz is right that we also need something brief we can throw at BR1s when they say "What do I do with these point things?"

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    I think class guides could be made smaller if we take all the common features out and put them in their own sections. For example, the armour certs.

    Armour is almost always a matter of taste. Whoever wrote the medic guide suggests using Flak armour and gives a good reason as to why. But it mentions nothing of the other armour certs. I personally like nanoweave because it makes medics capable of absorbing more damage from almost every other source. Combined with the regen device you can become very tanky.

    It'd also mean that information isn't lost or repeated anywhere. You wouldn't be telling the LA and the Medic to both be using Flak and write out the same paragraph twice.
    One thing to keep in mind is that different classes have different needs for armour, defending on what they do, and how you play them. Engineers repairing vehicles, for instance, will ususally get killed by tanks (if repairing their own tank), grenades/mines/C4 (if guarding a Sunderer), rocket launchers/grenades/C4 (when repairing MAXes in bio labs) or rocket pods (anytime, anywhere). Medics, if played as a back rank support role, will find themselves killed most often by grenades, so flak is a decent choice there. If playing more aggressively, bullets will be more of a problem. Light Assaults have means of avoiding most of the explosive damage sources, because of their jumpjets, so they have far less need of flak armour.

    So, I think splitting the suggestions for armour cert from the general tips for classes can be a bad move.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    But you've said it there yourself. "how you play them". Not all medics are going to be back rank roles getting killed by grenades, some (like me) are going to dash around with the front lines keeping them alive. That extra health is sure nice when I'm getting shot at running past the enemy and into a capture point to rez the dead.

    My point is that the armour types are all common. Yes different people have need of them, and they should be suggested in the class specific pages, but we shouldn't be explaining why flak armour is good in 3 different places and not explaining why nanoweave is good in all but 2.

    They should be collected together, explained together given their strengths/weaknesses. Then in the class specific guide part, you can say for an engineer

    Repair Engineer
    -Get flak armour to protect you from explosions and upgrade your repair tool out the wazoo
    Front line Engineer
    -Nano weave armour will give you that bit extra when running around getting shot and max out your turret/ammo pack, grab some anti personal mines too.

    Class guides should just say, this is what the class role can and cant do and here are some suggested builds for it. It should not say "this is how you play medic. get x y z then do what you want". Nobody will really learn from that, they'll just be following what they're told to do.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  6. #26
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    As I interpret qaz's intentions (though he can correct me if I'm wrong), the purpose of this guide isn't to explain why particular choices are optimal and others aren't (though that might fit in the purview of a general class guide). The purpose is to stop newbies from quitting by offering them options for a large improvement in combat effectiveness in a minimal number of certs.
    Last edited by cfftble; 24-04-2013 at 03:05 PM.

  7. #27
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    i've added a tl;dr section at the top that will hopefully give the guide a bit of direction. first of all, we need to determine how many certs we're allocating for tl;dr (500 atm), and what we're going to do with them.

    i think that we should initially direct all new players to the medic, as it's pretty much the bread and butter fighting class of most other games, except that it has awesome utility for any squad on top too. beyond the initial medic certs, it's either going to specialising further in the medic role, or branching out to other classes depending on whatever one's preference is. will need some input there.

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    ...
    Yeah, good point. Let's do that.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Yeah sorry if it was unclear, I can see now how it might look like I was suggesting we turn the guide into some sort of choose your own adventure book.

    In related news I think we should turn the guide into a choose your own adventure book.

    "Human, if you which to discover alien technology and improve mankind, go to page 36. Should you which to stand against such idea's go to page 47. Should you wish to just stand around drinking beer and shooting bullet hose guns, go to page 2"

    Page 2 - "GO HOME TR SCUM!!!"
    Page 47 -"GO HOME NC SCUM!!!"
    Page 36 - "Vanu smiles upon you! You are greeted by Tom Cruise. He holds in his hands 5 Apple iPads with strange "certifications on them. He asks you to choose wisely what path of enlightenment you would like to choose, before reminding you to buy station cash for quicker boosts on the path.
    For medic, go to page 3.
    For light assault, go to page 5.
    For heavy assault, go to page 7.
    For infiltrator, pick again.
    For engineer, go to page 9."
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  10. #30
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    Further changes have been made. Every class and vehicle is getting a short section called 'overview'. It's an explanation of what the class does, and has very very short advise on what to get first/what's needed. More input is needed!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    Further changes have been made. Every class and vehicle is getting a short section called 'overview'. It's an explanation of what the class does, and has very very short advise on what to get first/what's needed. More input is needed!
    I like that idea.

  12. #32
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    Made excellent progress today. Purple giraffes for wally (responsible for all the neatly formatted bits!), coffeetable, rizlar, cmaster, and anyone else who's participated!

    Would be great if i could get opinions on what to do with the initial overview/recommendations though.

  13. #33
    I like how it's just organically coming together. I even got an hours worth in at the end of my shift this evening

  14. #34
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    I added the MAX section a few days ago and finally got around to finishing it this morning. Might still need a little work though.
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

  15. #35
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    I think the overview should include common cert regrets. When you first start playing and you look through the list of stuff there are things that sound very cool but actually turn out to be nearly completely useless. In my case it was smoke screen for the sundy

    Might be useful to have a "don't buy list".

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surlywombat View Post
    I think the overview should include common cert regrets.
    This idea amuses me. My addition would probably be scopes - they are tempting cos they are cheap, visible on your character and there are a billion of them available, but who really needs em? NV has it's uses, but most of them seem completely unnecessary.

    Not sure if we should include that many examples tho (if at all), since the rest of the guide already tells people what is worth buying, doesn't seem necessary to go into detail about what isn't.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    NV has it's uses, but most of them seem completely unnecessary.
    I used to think that but playing with a squad popping smoke a lot makes you realise it can be really useful. Perhaps we could just point people to the VR to try out scopes.

  18. #38
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    If you're fighting on Amerish, NV is almost required.

  19. #39
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    Yeah, 'most of them' referred to the other scopes, NV was the exception. It has some important uses.

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mrpier's Avatar
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    Ugh yeah, I have probably 150 certs (at least!) in scopes I'll never use.

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