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  1. #41
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    Alright .. getting close now.

    We need to figure out what we'd recommend to spend the first 500 (maybe 1000?) certs on for new people. There's two initial classes: medic and engineer.

    As we haven't made any progress in the document itself, let's discuss this here. What would you guys think? Full lists would be very much welcome.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Perhaps we should include a section that just explains, "how to get started with planetside 2", in which we can explain and tell people like a tutorial or guide book what class to pick and what certs to use. Like qaz said, have them start out of a medic or engineer and tell them what loadout to use. A lot of people in this thread seem to like the idea of the guide just being that (from my understanding).

    I personally, hate the idea of just telling people what to do. I see this guide as having a great deal of potential as opposed to just "first steps", though maybe first steps is a section that should be included. I see no reason to "hamstring" the possibility of the guides potential just to make it easy and quick.

    There's a lot of information on this game. And there's a lot of it that would be repeatable. And like in any document or code, when something is repeatable you make it common. Because if that something changes, you only make that change in one location, not ten. This is why I'm pushing for the idea of taking common certs and putting them in one place and explaining them there. I'm not against people saying in the guide under medics that one build can use flak armour and one build can use nano-weave and another use something else. But I am against the idea of explaining the full benefits of common certs in different places.

    So maybe we should include something like a TL: DR/hand holding section, where we do what's currently being done and tell people "Buy this this this then this then that then you're on your own". But I think it'd be a waste of a guide to just do that.
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  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    Maybe we should go with a "tldr" section up front and for people who want to get into the meat of it a more detailed section below. Might be a good compromise /imho
    Shortening it helps starters, but if you want to actually understand WHY we advise those certs it would be very helpful to have a place to understand the argument behind it.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonkers View Post
    Maybe we should go with a "tldr" section up front and for people who want to get into the meat of it a more detailed section below. Might be a good compromise /imho
    Shortening it helps starters, but if you want to actually understand WHY we advise those certs it would be very helpful to have a place to understand the argument behind it.
    well, i was kind of hoping that we could transform the 'first steps' thing into a tl;dr of sorts, except that we wouldn't explain terms there as that would defeat the purpose. unfortunately there's been zero progress in that section.

  5. #45
    Network Hub Grible's Avatar
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    Added a bit to the first steps. I can make another pass and try to make it tl;dr if everyone is ok with what I did so far.

  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Well, this post was my take on the first steps, so, if you think anything is of use, edit and copy-paste away.

  7. #47
    Network Hub Grible's Avatar
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    Ahhhhh fear of the wall of text has eaten my very soul - also I need to go do a delightful show. Perhaps I shall do some more later :-)

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Well, this post was my take on the first steps, so, if you think anything is of use, edit and copy-paste away.
    I stole quite a lot off that stuff already! Trying to get an an even more condensed version at the moment. The texts aren't that hard, but no one's come up with a precise list of what to do with the first 500 certs yet.

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Well, messing with the PS2Builder and trying to follow that post of mine:
    • Universal Ability: Medkit 1/4 (50 CP)
    • Combat Medic:
      • Tool Slot:
        • Medical Applicator: 5/6 (190 CP)

      • Ability Slot:
        • Nano-Regen Device: 5/6 (91 CP)

      • Suit Slot:
        • Flak Armor: 1/5 (1 CP)
        • Nanoweave Armor: 1/5 (1 CP)


    • Engineer:
      • Tool Slot:
        • Nano-Armor Kit: 4/6 (90 CP)

      • Suit Slot:
        • Flak Armor: 1/5 (1 CP)
        • Nanoweave Armor: 1/5 (1 CP)


    • Heavy Assault:
      • Ability Slot:
        • Nanite Mesh Generator: 3/5 (31 CP)

      • Suit Slot:
        • Flak Armor: 1/5 (1 CP)
        • Nanoweave Armor: 1/5 (1 CP)


    • Sunderer:
      • Utility Slot:
        • S-AMS: 1/1 (50 CP)




    And that is 508 Cert Points in total. A great Medic, a useful Engineer and a Heavy with some potential.

    The great thing about CM is that is so cheap to bring them up to almost full efficiency. The rest of the classes need a lot more certs to reach their full potential.

  10. #50
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    That looks great, didn't realise you could get so much for so little! Recommending first rank of both nano and flak is a good idea too, let em try both out and see which they prefer (at 2 certs per class you can't go wrong).

  11. #51
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    I think it might be a good idea to mention the HS/NV scope for newbies in some of these class guides. It highlights targets and restricts your vision to the range that your should actually fire at. Tool improvements are great and all but most of the game is shooting men. The scope is a huge quality of life improvement for new players. They may not actually be as useful as a tool 4 medic, but they will feel better about their play. I honestly think that might be the more important thing.

  12. #52
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    I made some more. Totally didn't know that tool existed, it's awesome.

    Pure Medic (includes HV45) - 522 CP
    Combat Medic: Nanoweave Armor 1 1 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 2 10 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 3 30 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 4 50 CP
    H-V45 250 CP
    H-V45: HS/NV Scope 30 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 5 100 CP
    Combat Medic: Nano-Regen Device 2 1 CP
    Sunderer: Sunderer Advanced Mobile Station (S-AMS) 1 50 CP

    Generalist Medic 496 CP
    Combat Medic: Nanoweave Armor 1 1 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 2 10 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 3 30 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 4 50 CP
    Combat Medic: Nano-Regen Device 2 1 CP
    Combat Medic: Nano-Regen Device 3 10 CP
    Combat Medic: Nano-Regen Device 4 30 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 5 100 CP
    Heavy Assault: Nanoweave Armor 1 1 CP
    Heavy Assault: Flak Armor 1 1 CP
    Heavy Assault: Nanite Mesh Generator 2 1 CP
    Orion: HS/NV Scope 30 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 2 10 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 3 30 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 4 50 CP
    Engineer: Flak Armor 1 1 CP
    Engineer: Flak Armor 2 10 CP
    Sunderer: Sunderer Advanced Mobile Station (S-AMS) 1 50 CP
    Combat Medic: Nano-Regen Device 5 50 CP
    Pulsar VS1: HPR Reflex 30 CP

    Vehicle Engineer 534 CP (includes Tank Mines)
    Engineer: Flak Armor 1 1 CP
    Engineer: Flak Armor 2 10 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 2 10 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 3 30 CP
    Engineer: Tank Mines 1 100 CP
    Magrider: IR Smoke 1 50 CP
    Magrider: Acquisition Timer 1 1 CP
    Magrider: Acquisition Timer 2 10 CP
    Magrider: Vehicle Stealth 1 30 CP
    Magrider: Supernova PC (Primary): Maximum Ammo Capacity 1 1 CP
    Magrider: Supernova PC (Primary): Maximum Ammo Capacity 2 10 CP
    Magrider: Supernova PC (Primary): Zoom Optics 1 1 CP
    Sunderer: Sunderer Advanced Mobile Station (S-AMS) 1 50 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 4 50 CP
    Solstice: HPR Reflex 30 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 5 150 CP

    Generalist Engineer 443 CP
    Engineer: Flak Armor 1 1 CP
    Engineer: Flak Armor 2 10 CP
    Solstice: HPR Reflex 30 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 2 10 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 3 30 CP
    Orion: HS/NV Scope 30 CP
    Medical Kit 1 50 CP
    Combat Medic: Nano-Regen Device 2 1 CP
    Combat Medic: Nano-Regen Device 3 10 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 2 10 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 3 30 CP
    Combat Medic: Medical Applicator 4 50 CP
    Engineer: Nano-Armor Kit 4 50 CP
    Sunderer: Sunderer Advanced Mobile Station (S-AMS) 1 50 CP
    Combat Medic: Nano-Regen Device 4 30 CP
    Heavy Assault: Nanoweave Armor 1 1 CP
    Heavy Assault: Resist Shield 1 50 CP

    Thoughts?

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkweeble View Post
    I think it might be a good idea to mention the HS/NV scope for newbies in some of these class guides. It highlights targets and restricts your vision to the range that your should actually fire at. Tool improvements are great and all but most of the game is shooting men. The scope is a huge quality of life improvement for new players. They may not actually be as useful as a tool 4 medic, but they will feel better about their play. I honestly think that might be the more important thing.
    Good point there. Although I feel that iron sights are underrated. I've started using them in the PST, and they are actually very good.

    My suggestions though are so that new players can start feeling that they are contributing. Also, especially for newer players, 30 CP are a lot. Spending them on a weapon that they are not going to stick with (in the case of the CM, it is almost certain that they'll get the Hydra H-V45 down the road) may be a bit wasteful. Better upgrade their core classes, start getting lots of XP and CP from support, and then spend those CP on weapons and upgrades that better suit their style. On the other hard, quality of gaming experience is paramount, so yes, the more I think about it, foregoing level 5 of the Medical Applicator and getting 3 NV scopes for the Pulsar VS1, Solstice and Orion is perhaps the way to go.

    That being said, the first steps should be for everyone. Past those, they start figuring out the game and can upgrade as it better suits their style. qaz's suggestions are great guides for fleshing out those classes once someone moves beyond the initial confusion. "Check this game out. Wow! OMG, what should I do now?"

    By the way, I feel that Miller may be the most newbie-unfriendly server in the game. At least half the people you run into are BR 50+, with at least 2-3 fully upgraded classes and loads of weapon sidegrades. It must be a nightmare for newer players. Its saving grace is a great community. People learn the hard way, but they learn.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 27-04-2013 at 11:11 PM.

  14. #54
    Qaz, those builds look awesome! Is there a way to link to the build on the website instead of having it on the guide? I think it may be a bit neater, no big deal if not though.

  15. #55
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    Yea Eclectic I see where you're coming from with wasting 30 certs, but I think they could be taken out of the medical applicator without too much fuss. You actually get less cert return from it with every investment because you don't get to heal the guy as much when you pick him up. The reason to invest in it is time saving, and I think around 3 or 4 is when it stops being a pain in the ass to resurrect someone.

    As for iron sights yea, they work, and they also keep you from shooting at targets too far by just blocking your view. The problem is that they're not "cool" and being stuck with them when everyone else is telling you how much easier it is with Reflex or HS/NV kind of sucks. You feel like you're missing out on a party with your vanilla weapon. If you're saving a few hundred for a med tool it might be a good idea to treat yourself to a scope in the meantime.

  16. #56
    Medic applicator 4 is nice and fast but 5 makes such a massive difference it's crazy. Also, you don't get much xp from healing so you're better off reviving to full as you can be off reviving more people for a lot more xp.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkweeble View Post
    You actually get less cert return from it with every investment because you don't get to heal the guy as much when you pick him up. The reason to invest in it is time saving, and I think around 3 or 4 is when it stops being a pain in the ass to resurrect someone.
    Not true. The higher the med-tool the more certs you will make. Revives at max level are almost instant, and they can be done from much greater range. So, if you have a l3 med tool, someone will revive 2 - 3 people with the l6 tool in the time it takes you to revive and heal one.

    that being said, scopes are good. there should be one among the first 200 certs.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkweeble View Post
    Yea Eclectic I see where you're coming from with wasting 30 certs, but I think they could be taken out of the medical applicator without too much fuss. You actually get less cert return from it with every investment because you don't get to heal the guy as much when you pick him up. The reason to invest in it is time saving, and I think around 3 or 4 is when it stops being a pain in the ass to resurrect someone.

    As for iron sights yea, they work, and they also keep you from shooting at targets too far by just blocking your view. The problem is that they're not "cool" and being stuck with them when everyone else is telling you how much easier it is with Reflex or HS/NV kind of sucks. You feel like you're missing out on a party with your vanilla weapon. If you're saving a few hundred for a med tool it might be a good idea to treat yourself to a scope in the meantime.
    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    Not true. The higher the med-tool the more certs you will make. Revives at max level are almost instant, and they can be done from much greater range. So, if you have a l3 med tool, someone will revive 2 - 3 people with the l6 tool in the time it takes you to revive and heal one.

    that being said, scopes are good. there should be one among the first 200 certs.
    That's why as I was writing my reply to your post, I changed my mind and amended it by suggesting level 4 for Med Tool and 3 NV scopes, which are cool and also useful both for night and heavy smoke use.

    Nevertheless, as qaz points out, there is a common misconception about the cert gain of higher Met Tool levels, propagated mainly by lone wolfs and inefficient cert-farmers in the official forums: you gain more certs, not less, the higher the Med Tool is certed into. The higher the Med Tool, the faster and from further away the revives, so you get more revives, and thus more XP/Certs per minute. During the same time a Med Tool 3 Medic will spend reviving and healing one guy, that is if he survives long enough to make the revive, a Med Tool 6 will have time to kill the aggressor and revive 3 guys, being mobile and offering a harder target. Med Tool 5 revives to 75%, so you can heal them up immediately afterwards to full health in almost no time. Below that, you stay exposed for too long.

    On that note, a lot of players, me included, hate being revived by level 1 and 2 Med Tools.

  19. #59
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    Totally with you on quick revives being more efficient. My thought was just that I've never seen a guy actually get more than one or two revives in before the other medics handle the other bodies. The first guy you revive is another medic. There are enough random elements in the game that I don't think I can make a strong argument for 4 being more cert-friendly than 5, I just wanted to float the idea.

    And yea, being revived at 1 or 2 sucks hard.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I play a front line medic and since getting max revive tool the amount of certs I get daily has increased dramatically.

    Yes other medics will get revives too but there's plenty to go around.
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