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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Air/Tank group comms - discussion

    Hello people!

    There has been some discussion, and even some attempts at, putting together more regular air and tank groups. Currently, our comms setup would pitch all pilots or vehicle crew into one channel, which could be enough, but may prove hindering if you want to try some fancy stuff.

    So, those of you who are interested in leading or playing in a dedicated air or armour group; how would you like to communicate with each other? Any answer is welcome, except no answer at all.

    Assume that anything you want is possible and dream up whatever you think would give you the best possibilities. We'll see what works and not later on.

  2. #2
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    How about having subchannels for different crews. So that people in a lib or magrider can talk to each other using one key, and to the whole squad with another one.

    I'm not sure if there's any good way of doing that without having people fiddling with mumble settings whenever they join, but it's good when you have alot of communication between gunner and driver, and that information is not always important to the rest of the squad.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    We can set it up so that the same keybind used by leaders and ROs can be used by crews to talk to each other or to other crews, whichever you prefer. No problems.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    You guys who played in the air squad tonight, let us know if there's anything you'd like to see changed for next time.

  5. #5
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    To talk to your crew we could use in game proximity chat.

  6. #6
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    So my initial idea was a bunch of "elements", with element leads all taking to each other through COORDINATE and somewhere in the whole unit was a Radio Officer who talks to whoever is in charge of the main RPS force through REPORT. In a lot of ways I still like it, and the implied structure it creates. TankGir lead can shuffle around the 2-3 vehicle elements in combat, while everyone else gets on with tanking, and the RO sorts out where we are needed.

    However the other option is to again split people into either elements, or even individual crews, and have everyone listen in to (and be able to talk over) COORDINATE. I worry that COORDINATE will get a bit busy there, and intrude on intra-crew communications, but it's hard to tell. I definitely don't think that normal PTT should communicate with the whole tank division, as it will just be what most people use the whole time then, and we lose any benefit from tighter crew coordination.

  7. #7
    Network Hub CaBBagE's Avatar
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    Holding the whole thing together is the hard part, people may be able to swap the pulling of the vehicles but one nasty surprise and the column is in tatters with new vehicles possibly coming from quite far away. I still love the idea of it though!

    Regards,

    PurpleSnow.

  8. #8
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    Maybe it's worth having a look at this and this at some point for the air squad? Can't comment much right now since I am knee deep in work.
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

  9. #9
    CMaster, we're not using the 'Report' and 'Coordinate' comms concept now, it's all in one 'Whisper Keybind'. Esoteric can set up the channels to work as needed without people changing their keybinds which I think will make swapping to and from playing with TANKGIR much easier.

    I think the comms could be set up like a regular squad with the crews/elements within that. This means the SL/Element Lead can talk to the other infantry SLs and coordinate with them if they have a common objective. The PL would communicate with the RO to send them off to different objectives and receive intel updates. That way it's much easier for SLs to tell the armour squad exactly where they need their support.

  10. #10
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    I'm aware that it's standard practice for the one button now, but there's still in principle the two "channels" of communication.

    A squad (or more, because an armour unit a bit bigger than 12 people is probably best) of people together is not good for vehicle use. Drivers/pilots and gunners need to talk to each other LOTS. You can't do that with 6 different crews all talking over each other. We need to make some use of the "units" concept that Eso has given us.

  11. #11
    I know, which is why I agree that having crews split up into different channels is a good idea. What I was suggesting is that if you set those within a regular squad channel it will give the SL the opportunity to talk to the infantry SLs and better coordinate armour support. Thanks to Eso's serverside magic, you can still achieve what you are suggesting with the single keybind.

  12. #12
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    The idea of 'elements' is a good one, basically subchannels for each vehicle.

    However what you miss here is any squaddy banter. You could make Whisper communicate to the whole squad for anyone in an element, allowing squaddies to chat while keeping default PTT key for within the element. I imagine most people interested in more organised vehicle play wouldn't mind setting up the single bind required, anyone that hasn't got around to it can still use the system, just unable to contribute to the banter. Also I say 'chat' and 'banter', but could just as easily call it 'intra-squad tactical communication', eg. 'prowlers coming round from the north!', which normally happens in squads and seems useful.

  13. #13
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    Yeah, vehicle subchannels would probably be good. 2 people channel, either 12 or 24 in the unit.

    one whisper should be squad level communication, and then RO/PL stuff as usual.

    Edit: Maybe 6 per channel would work too, if the vehicles are close together.
    Last edited by qaz; 26-04-2013 at 02:53 PM.

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordKiwi View Post
    To talk to your crew we could use in game proximity chat.
    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    Yeah, vehicle subchannels would probably be good. 2 people channel, either 12 or 24 in the unit.

    one whisper should be squad level communication, and then RO/PL stuff as usual.
    Proximity chat, as LordKiwi said. The quality of the in-game voice has greatly improved. Or even set air squadrons/tank squadrons as separate platoons in-game, pairs of vehicles in separate squads, and they can coordinate with their gunner/wing-man via in-game squad-chat (default methinks is Z). So Mumble PTT for Air/Tank Squadron chatter, in game squad-chat for wingman/gunner.

    No need to keep adding stuff to the mumble setup, at least for now.

  15. #15
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    I deactivated in-game chat, and i don't see how this would be superior to dividing us up into groups of e.g. 6.

    Also, prox chat can be heard by enemies.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    I deactivated in-game chat, and i don't see how this would be superior to dividing us up into groups of e.g. 6.

    Also, prox chat can be heard by enemies.
    I did not know that about proximity chat.

    Still, squad chat. Mumble so that tankers/pilots don't feel isolated, and they also get to exchange info about their position and that of enemies, and in-game squad or proximity chat so they can coordinate fire with their wingman/driver/pilot. Especially for liberators and magriders I don't think that proximity is such a big opsec liability.

    The main problem with in game chat, besides quality, which is good nowadays, is that it lowers all other sounds. This though can be configured. In Voice options, there is a slider called Ducking. Setting this to 0, prevents voice comms lowering all other sounds. If you still want that, but not as pronounced as it is by default, just lower it to a setting to your liking.

  17. #17
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    I just think setting up dozens of channels, and tabbing out the game to change channel when you swap vehicle, and jumping through hoops to ensure you can talk to both your squad and your vehicle, and making that compatible with SL/RO binds... seems like a lot of trouble when we could just set up proximity chat.

    Even if the enemies can hear it, by the time they are that close it's probably too late and if ths thread is correct we're worrying over nothing... http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...y-chat.111551/

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordKiwi View Post
    I just think setting up dozens of channels, and tabbing out the game to change channel when you swap vehicle, and jumping through hoops to ensure you can talk to both your squad and your vehicle, and making that compatible with SL/RO binds... seems like a lot of trouble when we could just set up proximity chat.
    It'd be best if a driver and gunner teamed up properly for a squad like this. That would mean that you wouldn't change who youre driving/gunning with over at least an hour or so. That would have the benefit of not having to jump around channels, and basically sharing all cooldowns and vehicles (indefinite uptime).

    Also, i'm thinking that a 3 vehicles per channel could work without being too distracting.

  19. #19
    Activated Node Frengler's Avatar
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    For Air (though I suspect this applies to armour as well) If you're looking purely for efficiency of comms then putting the crew of Libs in one squad/channel might be the way to go. But as has been stated before you loose the squad banter which makes up a large part of the social interaction and fun which we have. Personally I don't believe that crews should be delegated to their own channels. If 12 people in a squad can work fine (which it seems to) then having all air personnel in one squad and one channel should work as well whether that means you have 4 Libs or 2 Libs and 6 Scythes. I fear otherwise that we introduce unnecessary complexity to the comms system.

    For starters we might as well start with the basic idea that and air squad is organized game- and Mumbe-wise like a regular squad. An SL can then request reinforcements as usual from the PL and, depending on the situation, that can be in the form of another infantry squad or the air squad but PL is the one contacting the RO of Air and telling them where to go and what to do.

    This is all very theoretical of course and my ideas could be completely bonkers. In my opinion we need more in-game experience with an air group before we can come up with decent theories based on the feedback.
    "Time is a companion, travelling with us on the journey of life, to remind us to cherish each moment as it will never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Can we choose one thread to talk about this in? Just trying to follow the discussion and I don't see why there's two threads (reviving vehicles + this) discussing the same thing.
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