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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Also, AT mines, but these are mostly used in defense, and we usually do not do prepared defenses.

    The above are the tools. The application of the tools though is an entirely different question. Also, the question is always posed by the enemy.

    For instance, the infamous TR Prowler column. They advance in single file, never stopping, just driving towards and through our position. In essence they are trying to "cross the t". The default, uncoordinated answer is people taking shots at the target that they can more conveniently aim. As the column rolls on though, the convenient target always changes to be a different tank, so in essence all tanks receive just a minimum amount of damage. Concentrating everyone on one target is also the wrong answer, as at best you can destroy 1-2 tanks before the rest have closed the gap, and you are screwed. Also, that column is followed by an infantry push.

  2. #22
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Ok for this week "What could the SL do in that situation ?", I offer you one of the last base assault of Thursday's night by Platoon 1 Charlie squad (and many others).

    What happened : We ended up at an NC watchtower surrounded by a lot of friendly forces. Together we held B and C firmly, but we were stuck on the stairs. The NC were at the top of the stairs with, I believe, one or 2 MAXes and a lot of infantry behind them. I wanted to try a MAX crash, but apparently, no one (only my RO, and it was on cooldown) had good anti-infantry MAXes. We ended up in a meatgrinder with the frontline almost not moving (they never got in the garage, we never got to A), and capturing the base in 20 min by simply holding B and C.
    Additional informations : there were a lot of people there, but it took me like 10 min to notice that there were others RPS squads (possibly platoon) because they weren't from our platoon. Also, it was one of the last battle before we warpgated the NC. So they were probably a lot of people in that watchtower and it was an unusual situation, but I think the question is still valid for a normal watchtower assault.

    After the action, thinking about it a bit, I came up with 3 potentials solutions. I would like your opinions on theses solutions and your owns. Remember, the goal is to break temporarily their defence on the top of the stairs to allow others VS forces to take A.
    - Using a Light Assault force (all the squad ?) to get on the first floor directly, and flank the enemy. Questions : Is the default light assault able to jump on the first floor (I intend to do the test myself, but was too tired to play long yesterday) ? Would a LA full squad be able to take on 1 MAX + 3-4 infantry ? 2 MAXes without infantry ? Remember, by going to the first floor, you don't have any medic and I'm worried about damage output against the MAXes.
    - Using 3-4 Heavy on a single stair, in a relay pattern to fire their dumb rockets at anything that is blocking the top of the stair ? Is this practical ? would it work ?
    - Fake MAX crash : Use default MAXes in a MAX crash, they may not be able to deal damage because of unsuited weapons but they will simply tank damage which may be able to push the enemy back ? Would we get slaughtered because MAXes would only be able to go one by one through the top of the stairs ?
    - What's your own solution ?
    Last edited by Ksempac; 11-05-2013 at 11:02 AM.

  3. #23
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    Yeah, that was Feldspar.

    Not a lot that could be done about it really. Big LA push might work, but might just get stomped, depending on how many they have running around.

    Quasar + Comet maxes are ok vs infantry now, by the way.

  4. #24
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    Best way to deal with tower staircase camps is to have someone sit on the ground floor with a grenade bandoleer of flashbangs or concussions or smoke, and have them 'nade the ceiling before you pile through.

    That said, two MAXs shouldn't have been a problem for a full squad. 12 LAs would have been serious overkill in fact - you should've just been able to conc them from the doorway, run through to the balcony, start shooting, conc again, carry on shooting, etc.

    Also the value in MAX suits isn't their weapons, it's their 10k effective HP. It doesn't matter if you've got shitty AI MAXs, if four lumbering giants charged through the doorway they'd have gotten all the attention while the other eight members of your squad did the killing.

  5. #25
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Thank you both for your input.

    What does "conc" mean ?

  6. #26
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    /\/\ Concussion grenade

    Also, going back to tanks: if there are truly ludicrous numbers of them, then grab a Scythe, an Ejection seat, and a squad beacon. Set up half a kilometer behind them, get anyone with an AV turret or Lancer to drop in, go nuts. Rearrange squads to get anyone with the necessary tools in your squad.

    e: Going back further

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    weve figured out that every max needs half an engineer. also one medic for an entire squad should be enough, unless it gets split in half to cover more air. also, if air is very present, you might sacrifice engineers for more maxes. but you might need atleast one more medic in that case.
    Can't agree with this. One medic means one point of failure. For general squads, more medics = better than until they start making up more than half your troops.

    As to MAXs, I don't know what TRAM roll with but it seems to be a lot more than one engineer for every two MAXs. I'd say more like one-to-one, but I'll need to take a closer look next time we're up against them.
    Last edited by cfftble; 11-05-2013 at 11:23 AM.

  7. #27
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    like I said, for squads that stay in one place with maxes, a medic can be enough. he should keep his head low though.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  8. #28
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Ok, i just tried it out myself : A non-upgraded LA can reach the first floor of a watchtower. So a full squad LA assault can be done when needed.

    Yeah science
    Last edited by Ksempac; 11-05-2013 at 03:14 PM.

  9. #29
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    My humble opinion on tower assaults:
    LA are (at least with upgrades) able to reach the first or even (slightly below) the second floor in a single boost, depending on surrounding buildings. This doesn't work reliably, hower, then the enemy still holds the exterior of the tower. In that case, beacons/squad deploy/airdrops might be necessary (and LA don't need ejection seats).

    LA also have C4 to effectively engage flanked enemies, especially considering how crowded towers often are. Considering that there were other forces in the garage, even dropping only a few enemies/ causing chaos might be enough.

    You might also be able to cut/reduce their reinforcements by taking position on the (i think) AV-turret level.

    I'll also second concussion grenades-though i haven't unlocked them, i've seen (and felt) them used. Although you might be able to hold a camped doorway against some enemies, anything thats not already under your crosshairs (e.g. a sprinting stock MAX) can easily kill you.

    I'd also like to add, that anything that gets on top of a tower usually can pick of turrets/snipers/AA-MAXes etc. with relative ease. (Personally, i like using C4-2 for turrets, 1 for MAXes)
    Last edited by StaticNoob; 11-05-2013 at 02:58 PM.

  10. #30
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    LAs are really strong in towers, being able to jump around up and down the outside, and everything being close-quarters, it is kind of perfect for them. My initial reaction to the scenario you posed would be to co-ordinate a squad deploy on the tower, with medics, heavies, maxes etc, hitting them from behind and trying to keep everyone alive.

    After reading the discussion tho, concussive grenades seem like the best option. You would need to be organised to make it work, quickly pushing through with everyone and neutralising the enemy maxes while they are dazed, then securing the point (and then holding it, which could turn out to be even harder).

  11. #31
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    Concussion and Smoke. MAXes have no ability that lets them see through smoke and I think it's really underused in tight areas like that.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    neutralising the enemy maxes while they are dazed
    Grenade bandoleer 2 basically gives you a ~15-second stunlock. I've taken out two MAXes at the same time before by exploiting the hell out of it.

  13. #33
    Lesser Hivemind Node sketchseven's Avatar
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    LAs with shotguns can do well getting up onto the upper levels of the towers - not necessarily actually on the first or second floor but on the infrastructure of the tower. I've had a lot of success with a slug-loaded Deimos, picking off people shooting out. If you keep moving around the tower it allows the rest of your squad to get in close.

    Concussion are under-used, as are a lot of the specialist grenades I think. They do require a little bit more coordination to use though, but if we can move more and more people to the TACGIR way of playing, I think we'd avoid friendly stuns.

    Also, smoke to cover advances is always a good idea.

  14. #34
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Ive got the decoy grenade for the inf, it definitly works in pulling their attention away from certain areas.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    I've been meaning to look into the decoy grenade, actually. You like it, then?

  16. #36
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    well maybe not against a zerg, but definitely against organised defences. which is funny somehow.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Yeah, people would have to be watching their minimaps for it to have any effect. An interesting thing!

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    well maybe not against a zerg, but definitely against organised defences. which is funny somehow.
    I don't know. I guess it can work against a somewhat organised squad or two. Also, you can achieve the same end result by using a weapon without a suppressor on one position, and quickly displacing. In prime time though, with platoons facing each other, EMP is just superior. Still getting used to it. It has a huge radius, which is both a good and a bad thing, because you can easily get caught within the blast if not mindful of it.

  19. #39
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    I don't know. I guess it can work against a somewhat organised squad or two. Also, you can achieve the same end result by using a weapon without a suppressor on one position, and quickly displacing. In prime time though, with platoons facing each other, EMP is just superior. Still getting used to it. It has a huge radius, which is both a good and a bad thing, because you can easily get caught within the blast if not mindful of it.
    no, not really, as it creates multiple radar pings at the location of the grenade, so it essentially creates the impression of a bunch of people where there are none. as well as weapons fire sounds.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    On a tangent, I see that a lot of us refer to any significant gathering of forces as zerg. Usually they are not. When BRTD for instance arrives in armour and infantry, with SOV as their force recon and RO as their CAS, that is not a zerg, that is a multi-outfit combined arms task force. Even if they rely on superiour numbers, those numbers were achieved by coordination and rapid deployment, with the right combination of assets, at the right point in time and space. That is the exact opposite of zerg.

    Similarly, when we run into a numerous VS force, sometimes it may be the zerg. Often though it is MDK, or DIG, or VC/UBAD/EMLD/CSG, running also public platoons. Again, that is an organised and coordinated force, not a zerg. Type a hello in /yell or /regionsay, and get in touch with their commanders. That is always appreciated. And it is somewhat funny saying "the zerg has arrived", and that force is DWG, Furious or IVRI, which are among the best outfits across all servers.

    Finally, always pay attention to the tags. They convey information about what they are planning to do. For instance, in prime time, the presence of BRTD signifies that usually that is the main focal point of the TRAM push. Also, expect lots of sunderers and prowlers. GOON is going to try to crush with superiour numbers. Also, if GOON is gal-dropping, they have a couple of pilots that love using their gals as CAS platforms, and hover around raining bulldog fire. BRTD and GOON also like MAXes and shotguns a lot. GOON also usually sets AA and AV nests in a hard to approach place. SOV will try flanking and loves bound overwatch. INI will try multiple hit-and-runs from various directions. They see themselves as an elite spec-ops force, and operate as such. And so on. Pay attention to them. Each outfit has a style. Recognising it means that you at least know something about what we're up against in each situation.
    Last edited by MrEclectic; 12-05-2013 at 07:12 PM.

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