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  1. #61
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    actually, I lead the ns2 squad of about 16 people last call to arms, and we did do our own stuff as we were facing a massive front line and cmaster was concentrating on two specific areas. so we ended up taking the small stuff with some other public squads where the tr werent looking.

    so it does work, if the squad or platoonleader knows what the hell hes doing, and can always come in for backup.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I would agree with this only if PLs are passing on information about what they are doing on a regular basis to someone in command. Someone who can say "no, don't do that, another platoon is" or"can you go here instead" or "ok, I'll give you backup from another platoon if you ask for it" etc.

    Platoons 'doing their own thing' will get messy and uncoordinated very quickly if they are not feeding what they are doing into someone organising things as a whole.
    Agreed. Maybe this kind of reporting thing is best done through outfit chat though, because unlike voice comms there's then a log of where everyone is for everyone to see. Oh, and you can't talk over eachother there.

    It also means I don't froth at the mouth trying to work out which channel I'm talking in without the (currently broken, for me) overlay.

    Sinomatic's point is a good one too: contrary to qaz's suggestion, most SL didn't operate of their own volition last time and it cost us a lot of downtime. I don't know if that was because it wasn't made explicit that they should bugger off and do their own thing, or if it's just a shortage of confident SLs who don't need no SG to tell them what to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Seems to me that it is a matter of top level resource usage and intel, not organisational platform. If anyone takes issue with decisions made by the leads, take it up during debriefs, discussions on strategic improvement is always welcome there.
    No, it's organisational platform. People were underutilized last time not because of bad decisions on CMaster's behalf, but because each of 20 squads needed to make reports and get new orders every ~10 minutes (which is about the time it takes to roll up to and over a base). That gave CMaster on average 30 seconds to absorb the report and come up with new orders.

    Military models of regimented top-down command would work if PS2 didn't play so quickly. You've all seen alerts, you know that half a continent can be won or lost in 20 minutes. On the multiple-platoon scale, centralized decision making by regular old mortal human beings just can't work that quickly unless we troll around in one huge damn blob.
    Last edited by cfftble; 07-05-2013 at 07:14 AM.

  3. #63
    Obscure Node Luperza's Avatar
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    I'm going to try to make it to this one! No leadership role for me though.

  4. #64
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    I believe the last time suffered from organisational teething problems, basically. We had planned for eight squads under one commander. We ended up with 16 squads and then some, and had to adapt to this on the fly, which took its sweet time, understandably.

    This time around, my vision is that we use the middle layer of platoon leads from the start and give them the mandate to operate somewhat freely within an area of operations designated by the supreme giraffe. Also, if there's a queue for the continent we're playing on, one platoon could be playing on another. I get the feeling we're mostly in agreement here, only semantics get in the way. Would you agree?

  5. #65
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I vote that platoons all have default orders for the night, and only veer from that when reinforcements are needed.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    This time around, my vision is that we use the middle layer of platoon leads from the start and give them the mandate to operate somewhat freely within an area of operations designated by the supreme giraffe. Also, if there's a queue for the continent we're playing on, one platoon could be playing on another. I get the feeling we're mostly in agreement here, only semantics get in the way. Would you agree?
    Platoon as the organisational unit? Yeah, sure. I think we've got enough confident PLs nowadays to support that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I vote that platoons all have default orders for the night, and only veer from that when reinforcements are needed.
    A thing I'd add to this though is to veer from default orders if your default orders are leading to boredom and aren't going to stop leading to boredom any time soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luperza View Post
    I'm going to try to make it to this one! No leadership role for me though.
    Official sanction, cool . We should probably just arrange a time and place for TRAM to galdrop us then.
    Last edited by cfftble; 07-05-2013 at 08:07 AM.

  7. #67
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Actually, I vote myself for PL. Its been a while, and Ive taken off just for thursday.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  8. #68
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luperza View Post
    I'm going to try to make it to this one! No leadership role for me though.
    Hey, that would be awesome! We'd be happy to have you along, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    Platoon as the organisational unit? Yeah, sure. I think we've got enough confident PLs nowadays to support that too.

    A thing I'd add to this though is to veer from default orders if your default orders are leading to boredom and aren't going to stop leading to boredom any time soon.
    Yes, that's the general thinking. Let PLs focus on the middle-scale strategy; I need to hold off this TR offensive, I need to take territory on this edge of the map, etc. Let PLs decide how to utilise their squads to achieve their objectives, have them report progress to the SG. Let the SG make the large-scale decisions and cordinate with TVA and other players; while we've been fighting the TR on the western front, the NC have been attempting to swing around the south and are making a beeline for The Crown/Eisa/The Ascent, or,



    Official sanction, cool . We should probably just arrange a time and place for TRAM to galdrop us then.

    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    e: Oooh, Esoteric, if you're SG'ing then while we're talking about TRAM: if we absolutely have to get in a pissing contest with them, can it be somewhere that isn't Sungrey Amp? I hate that place with a passion. Ta.
    Not sure if I am. CMaster seemed interested, and I can do other useful things instead. Don't think we should be on Amerish anyway. It would be fun to go to a continent where tanks aren't quite as handicapped as on Amerish.


    Quote Originally Posted by NickWhite View Post
    This is me for this.

    Nick, yay! Welcome back, man.


    Quote Originally Posted by sinomatic View Post
    If I can bring myself to have a go at it beforehand, then maybe. Though I may well put myself forward to help with the welcome platoon.
    Alright, people are certainly going to be needed in the welcome platoon.

  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    OP updated with an introduction to people who come to the forum for the first time. Feedback wanted.

    Thanks Luperza for helping to spread the word!

  10. #70
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I created a quick Google form for people to fill out with position choices, if that would be any use?

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1bKJ...fIswE/viewform
    Is there a way to see the results? I'd like to update the list in the OP. Or should I simply remove that list?

  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    If platoons are the organisational units, I'll take one. But I'm not sure yet if I can join. I'll let you know ASAP.

  12. #72
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Let's clarify what we mean by "organisational unit", because I'm getting a bit confused, myself.

    What I think we're saying is:
    PLs decide how to use their squads, and have SLs and ROs execute their orders as per ordinary TACGIR ops.

    and NOT:
    PLs have all the people in their platoon in one channel and order them around like on an ordinary night.

    Agreed?

  13. #73
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    Let's clarify what we mean by "organisational unit", because I'm getting a bit confused, myself.

    What I think we're saying is:
    PLs decide how to use their squads, and have SLs and ROs execute their orders as per ordinary TACGIR ops.

    and NOT:
    PLs have all the people in their platoon in one channel and order them around like on an ordinary night.

    Agreed?
    That was what I inferred as well. The point is, the PL is now a middle management type. The SG directs platoons, PL directs squads, and SLs direct the people. In that case, I'm up for being a PL.

  14. #74
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    O. Updated with an introduction to people who come to the forum for the first time. Feedback wanted.

    Thanks Luperza for helping to spread the word!
    Great job, i would just add one simple Q&A
    "What do i need to join you?"
    "You only need to install Planetside2 and Mumble before the actual event. Both are free to download. See below for details."

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skhalt View Post
    It think it is supposed to start at 7:30pm UTC like a regular Strategic Thursday, ideally people should start coming at 7:00pm UTC to prepare the operation (be invited in the outfit if need be, then assigned a squad). If the numbers are overwhelming this might take more than 30 minutes though.
    from wikipedia:

    UTC does not change with a change of seasons, but local time or civil time may change if a time zone jurisdiction observes daylight saving time (summer time). For example, local time on the east coast of the United States is five hours behind UTC during winter, but four hours behind while daylight saving is observed there.

    so i'm guessing you actually meant 7:30pm BST and 8:30 CEST which is 6:30pm UTC 6:30pm GMT and 7:30pm CET.

    confusing enough?

  16. #76
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    That was what I inferred as well. The point is, the PL is now a middle management type. The SG directs platoons, PL directs squads, and SLs direct the people. In that case, I'm up for being a PL.
    Alright, good. Actually, though, it could be up to each PL how they wanted to handle things, really. Might become really confusing for people, if they need to switch platoons, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksempac View Post
    Great job, i would just add one simple Q&A
    "What do i need to join you?"
    "You only need to install Planetside2 and Mumble before the actual event. Both are free to download. See below for details."
    Yeah, good point. Thanks!

    OP updated again.
    Last edited by EsotericReverie; 07-05-2013 at 09:43 AM.

  17. #77
    Network Hub Skhalt's Avatar
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    It's written "Strategic Giraffes (Thursdays) (7:30pm UTC)" on that thread at any rate. All I can say is StratGirs have been starting at 20:30 GMT+2 here in France for the month or so I've been playing, so what you said is certainly correct and that thread needs an update. Or I've been confused the whole time and always showed up one hour early, but never noticed since there are always people playing? I wouldn't put it past me
    Last edited by Skhalt; 07-05-2013 at 09:49 AM.

  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    That used to be true before daylight saving time changes cam into effect. What is really implied is BST, not UTC.

  19. #79
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    By the way, if you want to hear some of our exploits from last time, from another perspective, then you should listen to the last PC Gamer UK Podcast #89 at around 1h 45mins give or take a few. A rather interesting story of our 14 Galaxies (or however many we had) strong drop on Sungrey.

  20. #80
    Lesser Hivemind Node sketchseven's Avatar
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    Right my schedule towards the end of the week is getting more and more compressed due to slipping on the client end; so it's highly likely I won't be able to make Thursday night

    I don't know who's where as regards SL duties but I think I have to count myself out at this stage. If I can get online to play some I'll try.

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