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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Alienware prices reasonable?

    Cheapest option here in Ireland is their X51 with an i3-3220, 1dgtx645, 6gb of 1333Mhz memory, a standard 1TB hdd and an optical drive. No options to customize that one either, so it's take it as it is. You also get a load of free bloat ware, you don't get to choose what brands of video card, mobo or memory you want and you don't know what PSU is in there. All this for only €669? Where do I sign!?

    Whatever they announce at E3 will be overpriced and underpowered.
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  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    You're being daft. You calculate based on a graphics card, but you don't even NEED a graphics card to compete with consoles.
    I thought we were discussing PC gaming, not just "more powerful than a console". If we are considering relative power (which is pointless when you realize that the vast majority of new titles are targeting console-levels of hardware), we better throw out the Wii too.

    Also: huh?
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  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    You don't need a graphics card for PC gaming. It helps, sure, a lot. But it's not required.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    You don't need a graphics card for PC gaming. It helps, sure, a lot. But it's not required.
    I'm sorry, what? I know the solutions from say Intel have come a long way but they're still behind the 360, and won't hold a candle to the next gen consoles. Unless you're saying something that I'm missing here...?
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    There are arguments that games are cheaper on the PC, but most of those involve buying titles a few months after release (which is true on all platforms) or heavy reliance on bundles (which potentially cost more in the long run because it is hard to say no to a bundle :p).
    Really? Games on consoles get reduced to the $5-7 I often pick them up for a few months after release? I don't know, never having owned a console this might be true but
    I was under impression that they were still pretty expensive even years after release.

    Also, you're probably right if someone is using their PC exclusively for gaming it's probably worse value in absolute terms than getting a console. However most people will want a PC in their house in any case. Usually the choice is more like "spend $500 for a bargain PC or throw in an extra couple of hundred to get one capable of playing games."


    To compare prices like this you also sort of implicitly assume the quality of gaming experience you get on a console is equal to that of PC. Something which is very debatable :)

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    I'm sorry, what? I know the solutions from say Intel have come a long way but they're still behind the 360, and won't hold a candle to the next gen consoles. Unless you're saying something that I'm missing here...?
    HD Graphics 4000 beats the 360, but AMDs APUs have much better IGPs than that. It's certainly possible to game on an A10-5800K with no graphics card.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iridescence View Post
    Really? Games on consoles get reduced to the $5-7 I often pick them up for a few months after release? I don't know, never having owned a console this might be true but
    I was under impression that they were still pretty expensive even years after release.
    In terms of "normal" price, they tend to go down in price at a slower rate, but they aren't all as bad as an Activision title.

    But the retail chains that aren't obsessed with ripping us off on used games have had some good sales. Often in the same month. Hell, I got the new Mortal Kombat (a year or two back. Whenever the PSN fell apart due to hackers :p) for 15 dollars the week after launch (retail was 60-ish).

    They aren't Steam sales, that is for damned sure, but if you pay attention to the weekly sales at your local retailers (or online ones), you can get a similar experience to the PC outside of those magic and glorious Steam sale weeks. It is just a lot less advertised and you have to deal with assholes from CheapAssGamers who buy a bunch to ebay for a profit.

    Also, the PS3 (and hopefully PS4) have Playstation Plus which, at least in the past year, means a crapton of free games. And not even just the shovelware, I mean stuff like Demon's Souls and I think even Just Cause 2, plus the good games that just didn't find the right niche when they launched.

    Also, you're probably right if someone is using their PC exclusively for gaming it's probably worse value in absolute terms than getting a console. However most people will want a PC in their house in any case. Usually the choice is more like "spend $500 for a bargain PC or throw in an extra couple of hundred to get one capable of playing games."
    Actually, that is losing a lot of steam these days. More and more, people are relying on their tablets and smart phones. The only thing the "average" person uses a PC/laptop for that they can't use their tablet/phone for is spreadsheets and writing formatted documents in MS Word, and Google Docs (and eventually MS office :p) are making that a moot point.

    I personally couldn't live without at least a laptop (and preferably a full desktop PC), but my sister (who also grew up around computers and the like) pretty much uses her laptop maybe once or twice a week and her tablet the rest (not counting work).


    To compare prices like this you also sort of implicitly assume the quality of gaming experience you get on a console is equal to that of PC. Something which is very debatable :)
    Well, considering that most games the average person is interested in are multi-platform, it is best to not dwell on that too much (there is a reason the first quarter of most TB videos are "how good of a port is it" :p). That just leaves exclusives and you really can't compare those as it is comparing apples (Crusader Kings 2) to oranges (Metal Gear Solid 4).

    But for the argument of "which hobby is cheaper", we don't really come out that well. Which was kind of my point.
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  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    HD Graphics 4000 beats the 360, but AMDs APUs have much better IGPs than that. It's certainly possible to game on an A10-5800K with no graphics card.
    Really? Because looking at benchmarks for cross-platform games running at about 720p with settings I'd consider roughly equal with consoles, the HD 4000 either matches or loses to general 360 gameplay (targeting 30FPS). There's only a handful of titles where I might consider it 'better'. I hope you're not just basing this on simple statistics like clock speeds...
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
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  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Really? Because looking at benchmarks for cross-platform games running at about 720p with settings I'd consider roughly equal with consoles, the HD 4000 either matches or loses to general 360 gameplay (targeting 30FPS). There's only a handful of titles where I might consider it 'better'. I hope you're not just basing this on simple statistics like clock speeds...
    You're probably overestimating the settings required to match the consoles. Besides, like I said, AMDs APUs are a lot better than HD Graphics 4000.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    If memory serves you could crossfire an APU and a 6670 to get some really impressive performance for a rig under 300 in total, a couple of years back. There's no need to compromise on the GPU to compare with consoles.
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  11. #31
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    Yeah. Xbox360 is like less than a 3770 in spec for hardware (AFAIK). It's not running high def at 30FPS either (check out the actual gameplay, not the claims). Plus texture pop in in games like Halo3 (no idea if modern engines are faster).
    If the AMD avoids those, and plays medium settings at 25FPS+, I'd let it go by as a "close enough".

    PS, Toms Hardware put the integrated 7560D at the scale of a 7800GTX or HD5550. The HD5550 runs DX 11 (Xbox is DX9 only) at 720p with tessellation as well at around 22fps. Low quality Metro 2022 at 40FPS. Crysis 2 DX 9 entry level at 22 fps. Interestingly, GTA4 at medium and 26fps.

    From what I can see, it will run most games at 40fps on entry or medium detail, and for those that push the boundaries, 22 fps on lowest settings.
    Not amazing, but for the price and being integrated, rather a result. Still better [options] than an Xbox for certain. :P
    Last edited by TechnicalBen; 17-05-2013 at 05:13 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    In terms of "normal" price, they tend to go down in price at a slower rate, but they aren't all as bad as an Activision title.



    Actually, that is losing a lot of steam these days. More and more, people are relying on their tablets and smart phones. The only thing the "average" person uses a PC/laptop for that they can't use their tablet/phone for is spreadsheets and writing formatted documents in MS Word, and Google Docs (and eventually MS office :p) are making that a moot point.

    I personally couldn't live without at least a laptop (and preferably a full desktop PC), but my sister (who also grew up around computers and the like) pretty much uses her laptop maybe once or twice a week and her tablet the rest (not counting work).



    Good point. As a dedicated PC gamer, I'm actually hoping the next generation of consoles does well because I would hate to see mobile games become the industry standard. I'm sure some of them are alright but from what I've seen there's a lot of complete trash in that market.

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