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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Huh. I'm cautiously curious ... surely people won't pay me money for random cards that give them tokens? This might be worth investigating.
    After buying the remaining cards for a Dota2 badge, I have made a profit of around 16€ by selling cards from all the other games I have that drop cards.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Damn. Where do I sign?
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Damn. Where do I sign?
    Into the Steam Trading Cards group which randomly sends-out invites - or to me (shrewdlogarithm) as a friend and I'll send you one.

    It's weird that people will pay REAL MONEY for a digital card which redeems into things as exciting as 'profile backgrounds' and 'chat emoticons' but then it does the one thing that everyone really cares about, 'makes an integer get bigger' in the form of your "Steam Level"

  4. #44
    Activated Node ShEsHy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    It's weird that people will pay REAL MONEY for a digital card which redeems into things as exciting as 'profile backgrounds' and 'chat emoticons' but then it does the one thing that everyone really cares about, 'makes an integer get bigger' in the form of your "Steam Level"
    This. I don't know why people would pay for those cards, but I do know what I'm doing with them if I ever get any ;).
    Building, fixing and using PCs since 1999. Only PCs. Always PCs.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ShEsHy View Post
    This. I don't know why people would pay for those cards, but I do know what I'm doing with them if I ever get any ;).
    Well, I managed to trade some Dota 2 rares for level 10 on the Steam-chase-the-rabbit-carousel. So you don't actually have to pay for that stuff.

  6. #46
    Lesser Hivemind Node sinomatic's Avatar
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    I've made about £14 or so from selling the cards I've had, which I imagine will come in useful during the summer sale. I really don't understand the reasons why people would desperately want the levels/emoticons/backgrounds etc, but hey free money to me!

    As long as the perks of the 'steam level' remain cosmetic and tied only to how pretty and customisable your steam profile page is, it doesn't bother me. I don't think I'd be particularly thrilled if useful features of steam became tied to this level nonsense in future though.

  7. #47
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    I have a feeling that they'll tie-in some stuff to your Steam Level - perhaps things like booster/foil droprates

    Perhaps they'll even do a variable discount scheme depending on your level!? :)

    As it stands tho - cards will only drop in value so sell now and if you must - buy back again later.

    I know I could rebuy what I've sold for about 30% of what I got - and that's just a week's worth of sales!!

  8. #48
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    They have removed the requirement of being level 10 for foil drops, so I suspect your right about uping the drop rate as you go up the levels. They need something, as I just went to level 11 and I got an extra 5 friend slots, I didn't realise there was a limit on the number of friends!

    I don't think cards will drop in value that much, while more people join, more people will want cards. There is always a huge price on the first card drops when a new game comes in.

    I have €10 or so in my steam wallet after selling most and buying a few cards.

  9. #49
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    Card values have changed a LOT - even in a short period of time.

    Yesterday, for example, "Monster Loves You" cards were trading around £1.80 each - but not many were being traded. Within an hour of it going up as the Midweek Deal the price of cards was down to under £1 - they're now more like 50-60p

    That's supply for you - similar things have happened to other games which went on-sale (Cubemen - although it was on-sale shortly after it's cards went live).

    New games to the card system tend to start strongly - I did well on SSI cards yesterday, for example - but prices are quick to drop-off.

    FTL's cards never really gained any value - oddly - I guess too many people had it and actually PLAY it :)

    Certainly there's a skill to know when to sell the cards tho - even in the course of a normal day I've seen the price of a card vary by 20-30% - so...

  10. #50
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    I have here a ticket/card for a thing. Only in a limited supply. Send me money, and I'll draw you anything in MS paint you wish... I mean send the ticket/card.

    You can trade it after for some possible amount of less or more than you paid. Honest!!!

    Darn, why can Valve do it and I cannot? :(

  11. #51
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    RobF commented on Twitter earlier than people are dumber-than-cheese when it comes to pricing cards - and he's not wrong.

    It's one thing to list your card 1p less than the other cards (it's also dumb) but some people make it 5p or even 10p - and pretty soon other people have pressed prices down further and further.

    It also strikes me that someone with a few quid and a bit of patience could exploit this stupidity. Simply buy-up all the cards under a certain price and then leak them back at the same price as the higher cards.

    The risk is that there's endless supply of morons - exceeding the supply of buyers - but I'm not sure that's actually the case. I've been watching some cards and it seems that supply and demand are reasonably equal.

    Moreover, if you bought the cheapest 6-10 of some cards you'd DOUBLE the price of the cheapest card - the span is THAT big.

    Obviously there's a small risk to this and it's hardly worth the time and effort but I'm wondering whether to do it anyway to head-off the morons...

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    RobF commented on Twitter earlier than people are dumber-than-cheese when it comes to pricing cards - and he's not wrong.

    It's one thing to list your card 1p less than the other cards (it's also dumb) but some people make it 5p or even 10p - and pretty soon other people have pressed prices down further and further.

    It also strikes me that someone with a few quid and a bit of patience could exploit this stupidity. Simply buy-up all the cards under a certain price and then leak them back at the same price as the higher cards.

    The risk is that there's endless supply of morons - exceeding the supply of buyers - but I'm not sure that's actually the case. I've been watching some cards and it seems that supply and demand are reasonably equal.

    Moreover, if you bought the cheapest 6-10 of some cards you'd DOUBLE the price of the cheapest card - the span is THAT big.

    Obviously there's a small risk to this and it's hardly worth the time and effort but I'm wondering whether to do it anyway to head-off the morons...
    I was just noticing that you get listed last at the price you post, and considering a similar strategy. If there's a chunk of 10 people listing at 1.00 and the cards aren't selling fast enough you're better off dropping to .99 ... but while you're there, why not lop off all your competitors and price them likewise since you'll probably be waiting for their sub .99 cards to sell off anyway before anyone buys yours.

    I'm going to try it, because ethical salesmanship and productive use of time is for later. Let you know how it goes. So far I have 6.00 for enjoying myself in Monaco and Borderlands 2 and selling the proceeds. I'm astounded this is a thing people will buy, but I'm happy to sell it to them.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Oops. Did my math wrong. I think I might have lost about .20 of the $6.00 I got today. Oh well. :P

    Darn fees. I just gave valve .20 odd, too, counting the fees whoever buys my cards will pay. Clever bastards.

    But other than buying about 5 cards I'm taking a miniscule loss on, the general concept seems to work quite well and the repriced cards are already selling. Capitalism! :)

    Edit: Damn, I should have been more ambitious. All sold at a .19 total loss for doing my math wrong but the general strategy worked absolutely beautifully. The upside to not being more ambitious is that it's already done with. One guy bought two of my cards so perhaps the more ambitious are at work already. I'll leave that to them as I'm ok coming out only a few cents up the ladder (or in this case down) if it means skipping hardcore analysis and not banking on long-term value.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 15-06-2013 at 09:02 AM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  14. #54
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    Nice thing atm is that the market is small enough to be cheaply controlled - supply is steady, it's demand which concerns me most because it seems to be dropping...

    There are also quite a few people buying-out cheap cards to push prices up - just look at the sales graph and you'll notice a chain of sales like 1, 2, 1, 14, 1, 2 - spot the speculator ;)

    Fees you have to be careful with tho - in most cases it's 15% (of your asked price - so you get but 87% of the face price) but there are actually 2 fees, one for Valve and one for the developer (and yes, when Valve are the developer they get both cuts) and they apply them separately and round-up both...
    Last edited by trjp; 15-06-2013 at 12:30 PM.

  15. #55
    In 30 years, when the next housing/online/fresh water bubble bursts, the media will point fingers at the CEO of the future Lehman Brothers/Goldman Sachs/Bank of America and run the following sentence somewhere in the first page editorial.

    "XXX's first contact with speculative practices was at the age of 11, when he mass traded Steam cards in an effort to create a short term price spike.(...)"

  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by His Master's Voice View Post
    In 30 years, when the next housing/online/fresh water bubble bursts, the media will point fingers at the CEO of the future Lehman Brothers/Goldman Sachs/Bank of America and run the following sentence somewhere in the first page editorial.

    "XXX's first contact with speculative practices was at the age of 11, when he mass traded Steam cards in an effort to create a short term price spike.(...)"
    Full Steam Ahead or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Free Market

    I'm reminded of an SMBC comic.

    Edit: but the link isn't working and the site is all funky right now.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 15-06-2013 at 01:03 PM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  17. #57
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    On the "who comes first" when people are selling at the same price - I've been playing with it a bit.

    It's NOT who listed first - definately not - proven that more than once - nor is it who listed last, at least not always...

    I thought it might be your Steam level - that held out for a while but then I found some entries which broke that rule.

    So I think it's down to currency conversion rates and rounding - basically I think some currency conversions produce a SLIGHTLY lower number (fractions of a penny) than you can enter manually (note than you can enter 10ths of a c/p and that DOES seem to matter).

    I had an item listed at 95p - someone then came along and listed ABOVE me and no amount of listing at tinier fractions would swap our positions without me dropping by 1p - which I don't really want to do because we'll soon enough be selling for nowt.
    Last edited by trjp; 15-06-2013 at 09:44 PM.

  18. #58
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    How amusing to see the most basic rules of economics work out here. Supply and demand and all that jazz!

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velko View Post
    How amusing to see the most basic rules of economics work out here. Supply and demand and all that jazz!
    It's worth stepping back and remembering that most people here are not playing with 'real money'. I doubt many people are spending Wallet funds they loaded-up - they'll be using money they made from selling the cards, which are, in themselves, rather too easy to get (just leave a game idling usually works).

    The real challenge is avoiding morons - when the cheapest card is 80p there's always one idiot who lists at 75p or 70p - not enough to make the 15% fees worth buying-it for but enough to depress the market VERY quickly.

    I've been wracking my brains for a solution to the problem of 'downpricing' tho and the only one I can think-of is to switch to a bid-based system whereby bidders offer money and buyers choose which to accept - and that's not going to happen.

    As-is, the '1p cheaper' or even '5p cheaper' market is here to stay I think.

    I also think supply will exceed demand more and more as time goes by - as games show-up in bundles or hit sales etc.

    The big issue is that collecting the cards is currently quite pointless - they need to add something more interesting.

    I have a great idea, therefore, set a rule that you must be higher in Steam Level to list lower in price - so if someone who's Level 30 sets the price at £1 - you have to be higher to sell lower.

    Then you'd have to balance using the cards with selling them.

    You'd need to auto-expire items which are priced too-high - but otherwise I think that would be amazing to watch :)
    Last edited by trjp; 16-06-2013 at 04:20 PM.

  20. #60
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    and extending that idea - there should be a finite number of cards in Inventories/Market at any one time. Cards should 'expire' in Inventories and no cards should be handed-out above that limit.

    So you have to 'use' them (to get badges) or sell them or lose them - and then, ladies and gents - then we have a GAME - cards become worth having - I like it!

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