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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    But there has to be a reason why Steam is treated this way. Stores stock DA2 despite you having to register it with EA, and you can only buy DLC from them. They stock loads of games that have to be tied to Account Y or programme X (Sins of a Solar Empire, for example).

    Why Steam? Once the game is out of the store's hands, they have nothing to do with it. There has to be something about Steam that's causing this.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by goatmonkey View Post
    I may be wrong but were not all the THQ games not being on steam before launch attributed to Game refusing to stock them if they were.
    I can't think of a single Game store within a 30 mile radius of here that actually has a shelf for PC titles. If I ever wanted to buy a game retail, HMV is about the only place stocking them.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by UnravThreads View Post
    Why Steam?
    Likely because Steam is so popular.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Are they STILL bitter over the whole American Revolution? You know there's such a thing as a sore winner.

  5. #25
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    I'm repeating myself on this, again, but it's Game and other UK brick and mortars' fault, not THQ, not Valve, and definitely not Relic. The b&ms have threatened to not stock the console versions of multiplatform games where the PC version uses Steamworks if it's available day and date on Steam. They've publicly stated that they hate the idea of being forced to sell Valve's digital storefront with games, because they think it's anti-competitive (which is a completely bullshit line. They don't exactly go out of their way to sell PC games in the first place, since they can't re-sell PC games any more).

    Smaller companies (and ones in as dire financial straits as THQ) quite simply can't afford to risk calling them on it by telling them to go screw, since it's the console sales that make quarterly reports look good. This is why DoWII: Retribution didn't get pulled, but Homefront, Red Faction: Armageddon, Brink, and others have. (I'm actually surprised that Squeenix hasn't caved on this for Deus Ex, considering their most recent financial statements, but maybe they'll do what Brink did and pull it from the store the day it releases instead of pulling it months prior and cutting off any pre-sales).

    And you will never ever get an official public statement to this effect, because to do so would risk alienating the b&ms that they're bending over backward to appease.

    If you want a better example of the ridiculous power that the brick & mortar retailers wield, take a look at the PSP Go. That was very nearly completely strangled in the womb by the shops because they were going to refuse to stock it since they wouldn't be able to sell the games for it. Sony managed to get a stay of execution with the game cards that people could buy in store to put money on their PSN accounts, but it was still killed. My money's on much the same thing happening with the PS Vita.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    But there has to be something about Steam specifically that's causing the issue. If stores don't want to bundle other company's store fronts, why do they stock Sins of a Solar Empire? GfWL games? Ubisoft/Uplay games? They have requirements for that software which allows you to buy other games, content and so forth.


  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Because Steam is also a kind of storefront tat sells games that they don't get some money to, sure Ubisoft and EAs is also a storefront, but they know that those publishers still sell in stores because they kind of need to. Valve could easily not sell in stores and still get lots of money probably and the stores kind of hate that I would guess. Also Steam is really really popular, and they fear that as well.

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave L. View Post
    take a look at the PSP Go. That was very nearly completely strangled in the womb by the shops because they were going to refuse to stock it since they wouldn't be able to sell the games for it.
    To be fair, the Go had pathetic appeal. Whilst the idea of a mobile platform that used digital distribution is pretty cool, people thought it a bit bizarre to go from having a physical copy and download access...to just the latter. Add along with the price and the Go pretty much killed itself. In comparison, the Vita looks a hell of a lot better and there is demand for a mobile power-house of a handheld.

    Anyhow, I'm not trying to understate the power of retail, but as publishers, THQ need to address the situation or at least put out one crappy PR statement to at least know that people are aware of it and that we're not all idiots being taken along for the ride.
    Powered by Steam. And biscuits. I'm also a twit and dabble in creative writing.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnravThreads View Post
    But there has to be something about Steam specifically that's causing the issue. If stores don't want to bundle other company's store fronts, why do they stock Sins of a Solar Empire? GfWL games? Ubisoft/Uplay games? They have requirements for that software which allows you to buy other games, content and so forth.
    Because only one of the things you're talking about makes a ridiculous amount of money and is the face of a distribution model that brick and mortar retailers are fighting against. I'm sure the software is a factor, but quite frankly the biggest thing is simply because Steam is such a big competitor in the area.

  10. #30
    Activated Node Hirmetrium's Avatar
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    I do have a buddy in THQ whom I've touched base with on this, and as much as he was able to say is its directly related to retailers.
    But there has to be something about Steam specifically that's causing the issue. If stores don't want to bundle other company's store fronts, why do they stock Sins of a Solar Empire? GfWL games? Ubisoft/Uplay games? They have requirements for that software which allows you to buy other games, content and so forth.
    They have given Publishers an ultimatum - either stop selling your games on Steam, or we will not stock your games ever again. Retail still counts for a large portion of sales and, as pointed out, for console titles would kill your audience unbelievably fast. You don't want to be blacklisted if you intend to sell to your audience through the high street.

    I think there's a lot of embargo on talking from all sides - Valve can't comment on their clients disputes, and publishers can't comment on rumours or speculation. Whats painful is that Valve won't step up and say "talk to the game publishers, it isn't our problem" and the retailers don't want to admit they are holding publishers by the balls.

    It's an interesting problem which is born from digital distribution, and should of been expected sooner. Retailers have always killed each other for preorder specific bonuses, since its a reason to say "WE GIVE YOU THIS COOL STUFF YOU CAN ONLY GET FROM US - PREORDER TODAY!" so having a digital client muscle in just makes matters worse.

    Also, Steam is basically a shop. If you hand somebody a copy of a game with Steam, you are giving them full access to a competitor. Can you imagine how high street retailers whom have slugged it out for years feel about that?

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirmetrium View Post
    Also, Steam is basically a shop. If you hand somebody a copy of a game with Steam, you are giving them full access to a competitor. Can you imagine how high street retailers whom have slugged it out for years feel about that?
    But like I've said above, they're not acting that way over their competitors. Why is it Steam that they're focusing on? Is it simply because they're the biggest, or is it more to do with Steamworks, or is it even something else? If they're against games coming with a store front, why do they stock games which require Impulse (I know there's barely any, but still)? Why do they have Games for Windows Live games, which are arguably as in your face about their storefront as Steam is?

    I can't see them not stocking Battlefield 3, even if it comes with Origin, but is that because it's not Steam, or what?

    I'm just trying to make sense of this. With the growing controversy surrounding Valve R.E. games not being available in the UK (Seemingly focused on Bethesda titles) and their conflict with EA, it's getting hard to see them as an innocent party in all of this. I think Valve and Steam must be doing something that's causing, or at least contributing to, all these issues that are affecting honest, legitimate customers who just want to buy a bloody game.


  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    So here's something. On the official forums, UK residents can obtain a demo by registering for the Honour Guard, essentially the forum and get it on the same date as everyone else in the Honour Guard, the 22nd. I'm not sure how you actually get the demo, but there you go. It's something.
    Powered by Steam. And biscuits. I'm also a twit and dabble in creative writing.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by UnravThreads View Post
    But like I've said above, they're not acting that way over their competitors. Why is it Steam that they're focusing on? Is it simply because they're the biggest, or is it more to do with Steamworks, or is it even something else?
    You have asked this question over and over and had it explained to you in several ways so far, I doubt answering it again will help.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousOrange View Post
    You have asked this question over and over and had it explained to you in several ways so far, I doubt answering it again will help.
    I disagree. Many people seem to be rushing to Valve's side in these recent controversies without really looking at what's happening. The common link in all of them is Valve itself and their Steam platform, so to me it's clear that something about Steam is problematic. It's problematic for EA in one way, and it's problematic for the UK retailers in another.

    I don't agree with what the retailers are doing, because it shafts every legitimate consumers who use Steam or who buy Steamworks titles as retail (As I myself often do). If they're boycotting Steamworks titles because of Steam, why aren't they doing it for GfWL titles, MMOs or other titles which, in essence, allow the consumer to acquire products stocked by the stores? GfWL forces its marketplace upon you, I believe, and that very marketplace stocks games I could waddle into a store and pick up.

    The answers I've had are because it's the biggest (And? HMV haven't stopped stocking Apple products because they force iTunes upon the user, have they?) or because it forces Steam upon the user (Again, the HMV example). Perhaps if you put the two together you come out with a reasonable answer, but it doesn't explain why GAME willingly stock iPods, why they're selling these titles online or anything else.

    I think all parties involved need a big boot up the 'rse.


  15. #35
    Network Hub Axyl's Avatar
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    I'm just going to keep on making as much noise about this as possible, until SOMEONE eventually sorts this out.

    I can be so very, very annoying and stubborn when I wish to be.

    I'm not dropping this. Been on at GAME and THQ today, and I'm not letting up.

    The dumb thing about this though...
    Given the chance to pre-order the game via Steam, and therefore have early access to the Demo, I'd be far too busy and entertained to shine a very bright and annoying light on all this rubbish..

    Oh the irony.

    The quest for less bullshit in the UK PC Gaming Market continues.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnravThreads View Post
    If they're boycotting Steamworks titles because of Steam, why aren't they doing it for GfWL titles, MMOs or other titles which, in essence, allow the consumer to acquire products stocked by the stores? GfWL forces its marketplace upon you, I believe, and that very marketplace stocks games I could waddle into a store and pick up.
    It's because Steam is by far their largest competitor (GfWL Marketplace, Impulse, GOG combined can't touch Steam's user base), requires you to launch the Steam client before launching the game, and the client immediately displays the 'Update News' which contains the most recent sales or promotions, and by default takes you to the Store, not your games library.

    Everything about Steam's layout is designed to direct the user into buying more stuff through Steam. GfWL games don't require you to launch the Marketplace before starting the game. I haven't used Origin or Impulse (and Gamestop bought Impulse anyway, so they're hardly going to complain about 3rd party publishers using Impulse APIs), so I'm not sure how an Impulse Driven game or Origin based game work, but I imagine once EA starts making Origin APIs available to developers outside of EA, and those developers actually start using them, then the brick & mortars will throw a shitfit about them, too.

    Your Apple example is a bad point of comparison. When CDs start requiring iTunes to listen to, that's when HMV will stop stocking Apple products, or start negotiating timed exclusivity deals with record labels.

  17. #37
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    I don't understand this. I want to play the demo, but all things "Space Marine" have been removed from Steam because of this farce of the High street.
    Game have agreed to exclusive selling of the game for a limited time? GAME!? Fuck, I haven't seen a Game store selling PC games for years. Apparently the PC gamers of this country don't even deserve a single shelf.
    So all this is down to Game wanting selling rights for a game they won't sell? Thankyou for reminding me how much this country loves to do everything in a roundabout and illogical fashion.

    Fuck you Game. I've pre-ordered from Amazon.

  18. #38
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    Bizarrely, if you're in the UK, it's still perfectly possible to download the demo on Steam... you just can't see the page. If you open the following link in IE or Firefox (Chrome won't work with it) with Steam running it should download the demo. I myself am in the UK and this worked for me.

    steam://install/55410

    I personally liked the demo, servicable manshoot that will probably get repetitive over the course of a full game. Relic did do a good job getting the feeling of being an extremely heavy beef-man in a robot suit. The jump pack section is cool if too short.

    edit: I'm aware this link was given on the front page, but I put it here just in case anyone didn't read it then.
    Last edited by cosmicolor; 24-08-2011 at 04:03 PM.

  19. #39
    Yes, because it's in Valves best interest to not sell a game in the UK. That benefits Valve how exactly? I'm not arguing that Valve are saintly, they are a business and will of course be chasing a profit like anyone else. But in this case there is no logical reason for Valve to want this, but many reasons for Game, Gamestation or other retailers to.

  20. #40
    Network Hub Hensler's Avatar
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    Does the Vanquisher Cannon just put land mines on bad guys that explode when said bad dies or am I doing it wrong? It seems like there should be a way to detonate the charges manually.

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