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  1. #201
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Christ I hope the dog was ok.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  2. #202
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    I presume the car represents PC gaming with Microsoft completely abandoning its own market to try and break in on Sony's market. Because, fuck logic.

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  3. #203
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    I know I will probably get e-knee-capped for this, but I still quite like the look of the PS4 *obligatory PC is still the best comment here*

    I mean ideally I'd like to see everything on PC! But the PS4 isn't doing things so fundamentally wrong that I feel like it's a problem, like the Xbox seems to be doing. That could change of course, but at least for the moment the PS4 is still sticking with the place it feels to me, that consoles should be.
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  4. #204
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    The PS4 pretty much looks like a console with a screenshot key. I am ok with this. But killing Liverpool/Psygnosis was a cold move.

  5. #205
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    The cloud thing got my ears perky - if i understand it correctly, it sounds like a cross between Onlive streaming and playing the game locally. But I have one question: wouldn't it then be necessary for the cloud servers to have the game assets in order to compute + stream to the XbOnes? Or will MS just have a suite of generic shaders or particle effects that game devs can incorporate (and how much will MS charge devs for this service?) OR is the cloud capable of actually increasing visual fidelity 3x? (probably not, but it's nice to fantasize). Anyone with the technical know-how have any insight on this?

  6. #206
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamster View Post
    The cloud thing got my ears perky - if i understand it correctly, it sounds like a cross between Onlive streaming and playing the game locally. But I have one question: wouldn't it then be necessary for the cloud servers to have the game assets in order to compute + stream to the XbOnes? Or will MS just have a suite of generic shaders or particle effects that game devs can incorporate (and how much will MS charge devs for this service?) OR is the cloud capable of actually increasing visual fidelity 3x? (probably not, but it's nice to fantasize). Anyone with the technical know-how have any insight on this?
    I don't know much about it, but I think that is simply a marketing ploy. Worked for SImCity. Unless they found a way to ignore latency, in which case they should get a Nobel prize.
    In a nutshell, if the data is pre-rendered just include it in the disc. If it's not, it has to be computed in the console to be able to maintain a steady framerate. Most important, I don't think EA and the like will spend money to change their engines to work with that tech, since it's not cross platform, so I only expect some first party titles to use it.
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  7. #207
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    I presume the car represents PC gaming with Microsoft completely abandoning its own market to try and break in on Sony's market. Because, fuck logic.

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    Uh, no. Different dog.

    Anyway.

    I don't know if this is fake.

  8. #208
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Christ I hope the dog was ok.
    :( Me too. I'm mostly just astounded that such a thing actually happened.
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  9. #209
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTK View Post
    Uh, no. Different dog.
    Yeah, those two space cadets were talking about their dog running along side their car or some shit

    (also who has a painting of the Simpsons on their wall......)
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  10. #210
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Interestingly, the German federal commissioner for data protection flatout called the new Xbox a "surveillance device" in an article of the Spiegel (German). People won't know what happens to the recorded data, who else has access to them and they won't even know if they will ever be deleted.
    Makes you wonder if maybe we will see some sort of regulation from the EU in these areas. Considering just how grey most EULAs and TOSs are, probably not. Then again, the EU is always good for a surprise, one way or another.
    Last edited by Anthile; 27-05-2013 at 12:33 AM. Reason: typo
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  11. #211
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    Interestingly, the German federal commissioner for data protection flaout called the new Xbox a "surveillance device" in an article of the Spiegel (German). People won't know what happens to the recorded data, who else has access to them and they won't even know if they will ever be deleted.
    Makes you wonder if maybe we will see some sort of regulation from the EU in these areas. Considering just how grey most EULAs and TOSs are, probably not. Then again, the EU is always good for a surprise, one way or another.
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  12. #212
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamster View Post
    The cloud thing got my ears perky - if i understand it correctly, it sounds like a cross between Onlive streaming and playing the game locally. But I have one question: wouldn't it then be necessary for the cloud servers to have the game assets in order to compute + stream to the XbOnes? Or will MS just have a suite of generic shaders or particle effects that game devs can incorporate (and how much will MS charge devs for this service?) OR is the cloud capable of actually increasing visual fidelity 3x? (probably not, but it's nice to fantasize). Anyone with the technical know-how have any insight on this?
    I don't profess to be any major expert on things, but if we're talking an OnLive sort of thing, the cloud servers would be doing all the rendering and hold all the assets. The client just receives a live stream from the server and sends back controller input. Since the server is doing all of the rendering the client's hardware only needs to be powerful enough to process the stream and display it while accepting input, which isn't a big ask (until you factor in an internet connection). So you could keep upgrading the servers with better hardware and increase visual fidelity for all clients without the clients needing an upgrade.

    This all falls over once you factor in problems with internet streaming, namely that you introduce more input lag which can make the game feel sluggish, or the video quality becomes so bad on the client due to poor speeds that it looks like a mess. Think of having to drop back to 480p on Youtube from 1080p, it's not going to be fun. Streaming media can get away with a bit of lag, but for games? Tolerance is fairly low.
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  13. #213
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    Bring on the banhammer, Merkel. Make them suffer!
    Well, the EU fined Microsoft for enormous sums in the past. $731 million back in March. All in all it should be multiple billions now.
    Then again, those were all antitrust cases.
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  14. #214
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Streaming media can get away with a bit of lag, but for games? Tolerance is fairly low.
    Not to mention games can't be cached, as the display depends on the inputs.
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  15. #215
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    Well, the EU fined Microsoft for enormous sums in the past. $731 million back in March. All in all it should be multiple billions now.
    Then again, those were all antitrust cases.
    If having a telescreen in millions of homes isn't worse than that... I don't know, laws can be pretty dumb sometimes.
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  16. #216
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    I don't profess to be any major expert on things, but if we're talking an OnLive sort of thing, the cloud servers would be doing all the rendering and hold all the assets. The client just receives a live stream from the server and sends back controller input. Since the server is doing all of the rendering the client's hardware only needs to be powerful enough to process the stream and display it while accepting input, which isn't a big ask (until you factor in an internet connection). So you could keep upgrading the servers with better hardware and increase visual fidelity for all clients without the clients needing an upgrade.

    This all falls over once you factor in problems with internet streaming, namely that you introduce more input lag which can make the game feel sluggish, or the video quality becomes so bad on the client due to poor speeds that it looks like a mess. Think of having to drop back to 480p on Youtube from 1080p, it's not going to be fun. Streaming media can get away with a bit of lag, but for games? Tolerance is fairly low.
    Well, OnLive has proven itself to be quite effective, so long as you live in an area with decent service.

    While I don't know everything (I haven't really followed the 1, I am a Sony man :p), it would actually be quite interesting to run the physics and game logic on "the cloud" while leaving the rendering all done client side. In many ways, it would be like an MMO (just singleplayer) and could allow for some quite amazing stuff, admittedly probably not in console land (the genres where this would be helpful aren't too popular). Imagine playing a 4x game (or even an X-game as in X3) where all AI is handled by a 16 core machine off site. Could have a metric crapton of scripts running without at all having to worry about memory or background programs.

    And, if this approach were taken, the amount of communication would be on the order of a multiplayer game (no graphics, just packets containing the logic).

    But yeah, the biggest issue is: It iwll only be used by first party and exclusives since it would take too much effort to set up for a game intended to be run on all three major platforms (ha ha, Wii u is dead :p).
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  17. #217
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Imagine playing a 4x game (or even an X-game as in X3) where all AI is handled by a 16 core machine off site. Could have a metric crapton of scripts running without at all having to worry about memory or background programs.
    Dedicated servers, on consoles? HAHAHA
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  18. #218
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Well, OnLive has proven itself to be quite effective, so long as you live in an area with decent service.
    I guess that's why they went bankrupt a year ago.

  19. #219
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    it would actually be quite interesting to run the physics and game logic on "the cloud" while leaving the rendering all done client side
    This won't work, for the same reason parallel processing rarely works - parity. Anything to handle a loss of connection, lag, or packet loss, will have to be handled clientside, and to keep it in check without the game going all to hell the moment there's any noise in the signal, the client will have to have the same capabilities as the server.
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  20. #220
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    I guess that's why they went bankrupt a year ago.
    Seriously? I haven't followed too much (Even my laptop is a good gaming rig), but I know I gave it a shot and had no complaints othre than basically running on medium graphics.

    But I assume this was an adoption issue. Having a major console push it will help with that :p

    And Sony is already planning to use "cloud gaming" for PS3 (and probably PS2) games on the PS4.

    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    This won't work, for the same reason parallel processing rarely works - parity. Anything to handle a loss of connection, lag, or packet loss, will have to be handled clientside, and to keep it in check without the game going all to hell the moment there's any noise in the signal, the client will have to have the same capabilities as the server.
    Parallel processing actually works quite well, so long as you either have a system with a low number of faults/errors or use some form of error checking/correction.

    And what I described was essentially how MMOs work and very similar to how multiplayer shooters work (those have a lot more going on client-side, but it is still up to the server to sync everything, which often involves just doing the important stuff itself).

    In the context of a multiplayer game and your fear of errors: You know how when you have a lot of lag, enemies will jump around? Well, for some games, that is because you were locally assuming they would continue along one path when instead they turned. Which means that the server is updating you with info on what they did and your client is (effectively) doing a brief rollback and correction.
    Last edited by gundato; 27-05-2013 at 02:29 AM.
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