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  1. #61
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    Yes you want, we have several people who play it as their first or second time (in multiplayer). You also have plenty of time to get 1-2 good single player games in before this even starts. Pick a nation you think you like, give it a try in single player and then lock it in here. There are some nations that are more friendly to newer players then others.

    Also, we play with the CBM 1.94, which changes some thingd around. Mostly small things but a few are major that could impact the game if you count on them (most noteworthy would be dwarfen hammer). It is a think to keep in mind but not worry to much about.

  2. #62
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    Actually I would say the most noteworthy change is the Clam of Pearls and similar items that have been made unique. In vanilla it is viable to mass produce them to vastly increase gem production (which does not appear on the graphs). The result of this is that the late game becomes about who got the gem factory going the fastest and therefore has the ability to engage in tactics like mass casting of Wish.

    The hammers do help with the setup of this kind of tactic, but arguably it is still viable without them.

  3. #63
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    Cool I'm in then. Any suggestions on beginner nations?

    You might want to mention that the download for the faerun map itself is incomplete. The .tga is needed from the non-fixed version.
    Last edited by Wolfenswan; 18-06-2013 at 01:11 PM.

  4. #64
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    added, welcome to the madness of (hopefully) a 24 player game. We are getting there people, only a few more to go.

  5. #65
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Right now I am leaning towards MA T'ien Ch'i for my nation - but I am practising with them a bit first and my opinion could change. From the LP linked earlier, LA Arcos also look quite fun.

    EA Argatha were also looking groovy - but they're already taken, doh!

  6. #66
    Lesser Hivemind Node lasikbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfenswan View Post
    Cool I'm in then. Any suggestions on beginner nations?

    You might want to mention that the download for the faerun map itself is incomplete. The .tga is needed from the non-fixed version.
    I would say look at whatever three appeal to you most, then choose which one felt the best when playing a practice game. You may love the sound of something but hate it in practice. Blood nations are more complicated as you have to manage an additional economy, but some of them like Early/Late Mictlan are very straightforward to start. Just pick what sounds fun and then give it a shot in single player. A reasonable goal is at a fort started (or even better completed) and at least 12 provinces by the end of the first year.

  7. #67
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    I think I'm going with MA Abysia or LA Midgard for this one.
    Last edited by Wolfenswan; 18-06-2013 at 09:32 PM.

  8. #68
    Activated Node CWalker's Avatar
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    This sounds glorious, and I would like to participate! I have almost no experience of the game so I'll end up dying near instantaneously but that's all part of the fun!

  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
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    Welcome, also, for those who have questions or need help just ask here or find me (or others) on steam (|CB| Dominicus)

  10. #70
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    And if anyone is reading this and thinking of taking the plunge the game is on offer at Gamersgate for £4.75 for the next 12 hours or so

  11. #71
    Lesser Hivemind Node lasikbear's Avatar
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  12. #72
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    Midgard it is (Abysian if we have to use EA/MA)!

    Btw. I take it Multiplayer games are less Stack-of-Doom spammy than SP games? I got tired quickly of mass-production of stuff being the only way to kill an already beaten AI.
    Last edited by Wolfenswan; 18-06-2013 at 11:50 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfenswan View Post
    Midgard it is (Abysian if we have to use EA/MA)!

    Btw. I take it Multiplayer games are less Stack-of-Doom spammy than SP games? I got tired quickly of mass-production of stuff being the only way to kill an already beaten AI.
    Doomstacks are generally not a recommended strategy after the first 30 turns or so, no, although you might want a couple of large stacks for sieging if you can't make Gate Cleavers and the like. Very few nations have troops that are remotely cost effective versus late game magic and summons, especially when massed and vulnerable. The exceptions are typically bless nations like Mictlan and freespawn nations like LA and MA Ermor or EA Pan. Regular troops, well, 40 gems worth of supercombatant is enough to take on a thousand regular troops and not take a scratch and battle magic can make that look expensive. Having a lot of regular troops late can often even be a liability: once half the army's hit points are gone you start making rout checks and your army routing can prevent your actual useful summons and mages from getting anything done.

    One caveat: there are army buff spells like Fog Warriors, Army of Gold/Lead, Flaming Arrows (which I believe CBM nerfed pretty hard, at least when I last played a couple of years ago) and Weapons of Sharpness that make troops scary, especially those that have no natural defense but can hit like trucks. Oni are some of the worst troops in the game under normal circumstances but a goddamned terror when buffed.

    The main skill to learn for mid-late game MP is how to take territory from your opponents very quickly and at minimal cost while preventing others from doing the same to you. On the offensive, you should know how to gear thugs or create small squads that have good map mobility and can take out the PD you're going fighting at minimal gem cost while not being immediately killed by whatever counters your opponent has access to. On the defensive, you need to have a way to deal with 6 invisible assholes on ponies taking 6 provinces simultaneously. Territory is what gives you gold and gems, gold and gems gives you mages & summons and they are the things that lead to eventual victory. This makes raiding and counter-raiding paramount. Forts are the only way to secure a province, don't be afraid to spam them if playing Man or someone else that gets them on the cheap.

    For related reasons it's also far more important to have a good early game when fighting things not AI. Try to have an expansion pace of 2 provinces/turn by turn 6 or so at the latest, faster of course being better because again, territory is what makes you snowball and wins games. In single player it's relatively common to play with a pure rainbow mage because diversity is fun but in multiplayer the recommendation is to only get 2-3 different paths max and then only if you have a clear plan for how to leverage them. A pretender should always feed your expansion first and foremost, be it by taking territory on its own; providing good scales; giving you a bless; or some combination thereof. Make sure you do some test early games on the same neutral strength setting and with the same nation to calibrate how aggressive you should be, just quickly rushing through the first 20 turns or so to see what works and what to expect.

    Finally, have a research plan that fits your nation and some ideas for dealing with specific types of early aggression. Know what spells your thugs need to work if you have them and how you can deal with mammoths, ponymen and jaguar warriors. If you have battlemages that you need to leverage relatively early on (you're Shinuyama or Caelum, for instance) then have some idea of how to actually script them and how to research to make them useful.

    As Midgård specifially, your Skinshifters will be the ones carrying your early game and they're among the few troops good enough to stay relevant for a decent while. Build your pretender mainly for scales, add either some magic diversity or expansion potential, pump out wolfmen. Midgame will see you able to do some okay ponyman raiding, not as much as EA but in LA you take what you can get and a Herse or Jarl and a single Van sharing the square should clear most PD with basic buffs like Mistform and maybe a brand + vine shield or something. Add Galdermen to your forces to spam Thunderstrike and cast Arrow Fend and later Fog Warriors to keep the Skinshifters relevant. Begin transitioning into a blood economy for late game and drown the world in demons.

  14. #74
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    MA T'ien Ch'i for me. More practise games are needed but I am rather enjoying the nation's troop choices and dominion bonus.

  15. #75
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    This thread seems to have more experienced players in it, so I'll ask here. What happens when independents besiege a fort? Will they occupy it or destroy it?

  16. #76
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    This might be common knowledge but I just figured out that you can open the .dm file provided by CBM with a common text editor and check the exact changes CBM has made to your nation (e.g. to apply a vanilla guide) or anything of interest. It's a bit tricky to search but better than not having any change log.

    Random questions: (might be answered by RTFM so feel free to yell that if it applies)
    - does blood sacrifice scale with blood caster level?
    - is "friendly provinces" referred to by glamour your territory or territories w. your dominion?
    Last edited by Wolfenswan; 19-06-2013 at 06:14 PM.

  17. #77
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelron View Post
    This thread seems to have more experienced players in it, so I'll ask here. What happens when independents besiege a fort? Will they occupy it or destroy it?
    Independents will never storm a fort, they just sit outside. Not even sure if they siege.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  18. #78
    Network Hub Nahru's Avatar
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    I think I will go with MA Machaka.

  19. #79
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    I think 24 players would be excessive and turn out to be a bit of a clusterfuck. Still, I'll join as LA Jomon.

  20. #80
    Network Hub Prester John's Avatar
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    I'll give it a go.... EA Neifelheim for stompy giant fun

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