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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    TVA Squads/Platoons

    This evening we had a TVA platoon up. Nick had to leave and no one stepped up, leading to the platoon just falling apart and we getting a bad reputation amongst the general population of the server.

    Can we initiate a rule that we don't start public platoons before such and such time (when few people are online), like 8PM british? Either that or set a time limit and see it through.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    The easiest thing to to is "/platoon disband" when you leave if no one is gonna step up. It kicks everyone out of the platoon. As long as you warn people, tell them why it's not an issue.

    Never leave a platoon without a laeader if it is still recruiting as TVA or RPS. It'll give us a bad name.
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  3. #3
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Ok so, just to clarify.

    I had to leave quite quickly so i asked all the SLs if they would like to lead the platoon. I also asked the RPS guys on mumble. No acknowledgement or response from either so i gave it 5 minutes in limbo.

    I then told the other SLs that i would be disbanding and that they would be leading individual squads. They were all ok with that. I then proceeded to disband the platoon. I didnt let the RPS guys know because they were fine anyway and Boris was doing fine as SL.

    The platoon did not "fall apart" and nobody got a "bad reputation". Infact, i recieved thanks from many people in the platoon both during and after and a couple of people even joined the outfit from it, sooo yeah. False alarm there.
    Last edited by NickWhite; 12-06-2013 at 07:46 PM.
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  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickWhite View Post
    Ok so, just to clarify.

    I had to leave quite quickly so i asked all the SLs if they would like to lead the platoon. I also asked the RPS guys on mumble. No acknowledgement or response from either so i gave it 5 minutes in limbo.

    I then told the other SLs that i would be disbanding and that they would be leading individual squads. They were all ok with that. I then proceeded to disband the platoon. I didnt let the RPS guys know because they were fine anyway and Boris was doing fine as SL.

    The platoon did not "fall apart" and nobody got a "bad reputation". Infact, i recieved thanks from many people in the platoon both during and after and a couple of people even joined the outfit from it, sooo yeah. False alarm there.
    Oh, my bad. Just before the disband I saw /p chat going "fail platoon" and stuff like that, so my impression was that it had died out.

  5. #5
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    It's really not this dramatic though Boris. No need for a new thread about it.

    It stagnated for 10 minutes at the most, but that wasnt through lack of trying: I was buried in the UI, talking with potential people to take PL. A couple of people had asked me to "give them a sec" but as time dragged on i judged that they weren't as interested as they let on. That, or they simply took to long.

    I would have just disbanded from the start, but like i said, we were in a position where somebody could have taken over straight away. We could have possibly counter attacked from one of the satellites so i waited.

    The combination of the TR getting the cap and the recent lack of active orders would have inevitably caused one or two murmurs of discontent. You can never cater for everyone. There are always going to be a couple of ultra competitive, "this game means everything to me" people who are of the opinion that they are superior and that any errors you make should be highlighted.

    As i've said. It was no reflection on the majority's opinions on me, RPS or the TVA.
    Last edited by NickWhite; 12-06-2013 at 08:30 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    reputation amongst the general population of the server.
    does this matter anyway

  7. #7
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    does this matter anyway
    Personally I do care about it. I wouldn't want to be in a guild that has a bad reputation. I like good sportsmanship and cooperation in games, so I wouldn't want to be in a guild that snub others/damage the game's community.

    But that's beside the point, because even if you don't care for it yourself, it does matter, for at least 2 reasons.

    The ingame reason is, if we have a good reputation ingame, it will be easier for us to ask help from others outfits/public players (which we sometime need)
    The out of game reason is that as an unofficial RPS guild in a game, we represent the RPS community at large, whether we want it or not. This may have consequences for others RPS guilds in others games. See SA's guilds as an example of that relationship. Many are wary of them because they heard about what their EVE's guild does.
    Last edited by Ksempac; 12-06-2013 at 09:12 PM.

  8. #8
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    Some more feedback on tonight:
    1. there was no sign in general comms that we were working with tva. we've talked about this before, and i still think it helps if squads know whats going on. easiest way to achieve this is via the liason relaying stuff the pl doing platoon wide announcements at least occasionally.
    2. when i logged on, we had ~60 people online, of which 40+ were on mumble. it was messy and i was surprised that we didn't use any form of split comms. when i mentioned that in /os, moodle replied with a 'u mad bro' (names, because why the hell not). this has been on the agenda before, and i really hoped that this was something we'd never hear again from anyone in the outfit. on a different note, proper split comms didn't even seem to be on the agenda, which i think is a bit weird, considering that tonight was supposed to be an organised tva night etc., and it's easier to split squads up (which happened a lot) and get squad play with actual squad comms.
    3. i ended up in charlie and there was a situation that stood out: we were defending a base against the nc; big 48 v 48 fight. didn't look all that good. i made it to their sundy, which was quite a way out and then died. cei made me sl and ordered that people should squad deploy with explosives to take the sundy out, yet only one out of the 12 man squad did so. i don't know whether it was because they didn't know how to do it, there was a technical issue, or because there's a culture that doesn't encourage following orders, but it was not a good situation, and frankly something that shouldn't happen either.

  9. #9
    Lesser Hivemind Node Cei's Avatar
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    Qaz,
    I agree comms tonight was messy - though thankfully the public platoon was separate from the 'main' RPS, under Cooper. We seemed to be having problems with ROs early on, which meant we were floundering without clear orders. You're right though, we absolutely should have split the comms earlier.

    As for the order following in Charlie, I think we were hampered by several people not actually being in Mumble at all, and being in a combined Mumble channel with Delta did make it quite hard to follow when the bullets were flying - I for one at several points got totally the wrong idea because I was listening to callouts from Delta without realising it. Again, we probably should have split out in to a totally separate Charlie channel.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    2. when i logged on, we had ~60 people online, of which 40+ were on mumble. it was messy and i was surprised that we didn't use any form of split comms. when i mentioned that in /os, moodle replied with a 'u mad bro' (names, because why the hell not). this has been on the agenda before, and i really hoped that this was something we'd never hear again from anyone in the outfit.
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    when i logged on, we had ~60 people online, of which 40+ were on mumble. it was messy and i was surprised that we didn't use any form of split comms. when i mentioned that in /os, moodle replied with a 'u mad bro' (names, because why the hell not).
    Not acceptable and also, why is there hostility towards split comms at all? I still do not understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    cei made me sl and ordered that people should squad deploy with explosives to take the sundy out, yet only one out of the 12 man squad did so.
    Not acceptable. It's a simple, important order. Did Cei repeat the order? Hope that it was just people not listening, rather than choosing not to respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cei View Post
    being in a combined Mumble channel with Delta did make it quite hard to follow when the bullets were flying - I for one at several points got totally the wrong idea because I was listening to callouts from Delta without realising it. Again, we probably should have split out in to a totally separate Charlie channel.
    Is it just me or should squads sharing a channel never be given separate orders? What I mean is to treat them as you would a single squad, not as a PL would treat two squads. Splitting forces that share a channel is just asking for a comms nightmare.

  12. #12
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    in his defense, i don't think moogle was here when we had the first split-comms go round

  13. #13
    Lesser Hivemind Node sinomatic's Avatar
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    Something I'm a little unclear on: are public squads/platoons an integral part of a TVA night? I can see why they might be, I just hadn't heard it set out like that. The ideas of working more with the TVA and of running public platoons were talked about separately in the outfit meeting, as far as I recall.

    Public (and/or overflow RPS) should go into platoon 2 mumble channel from the outset. Having us in with everyone, and then remain in with alpha + bravo for as long as we were made the comms situation worse than it should have been. Having said that, split comms should have happened sooner anyway. More than that, it should have happened faster once people had decided that it was necessary. A+B remain in alpha channel, C+D into charlie channel. If it is still too noisy, and especially if those two squads are getting sent to different bases, that dual squad channel splits again.

    In terms of RPSers in with the public platoon - I'm not sure whether it was useful or wise or even works particularly well to have us mixed in together. I ran around shooting stuff, certainly, but the couple of times it has happened, it has all felt a lot more vague in terms of direction for the RPS folk than I'm used to. That's not anyone's fault, just a consequence of the set-up.

  14. #14
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    in his defense, i don't think moogle was here when we had the first split-comms go round
    If we're talking about TDMoogle, that's not the first time he does this. 2 weeks ago, when he was starting the game, I got a snarky comment from him for the exact same reason (asking to split coms). Since he was new, i let it pass, and simply explained why i wanted it. But now he should know better.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    I have my own gripes with last night, but they are mostly down to me being a tad grumpy and offish since the chap I'd offered to mentor didnt show up. I skipped a sushi dinner with my girlfriend and as such it irritated me a little.

    I don't agree with naming and shaming, but I did see the incident in /os. I don't believe it as malicious in anyway, but as is always the case people get excited. The comment was in tune with the banter as light hearted comment, but as qaz had just joined he hadn't yet acclimatised to the goings on.

    Don't think I'm condoning this kind of stuff, to the contrary, in the situation it was a bang out of order comment. People need to give more thought on how others are currently experiencing things. People also need to remember comms was a sore issue for a while and whilst mostly resolved, there still does hang an air of it.

  16. #16
    Lesser Hivemind Node Cei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinomatic View Post
    Public (and/or overflow RPS) should go into platoon 2 mumble channel from the outset. Having us in with everyone, and then remain in with alpha + bravo for as long as we were made the comms situation worse than it should have been. Having said that, split comms should have happened sooner anyway. More than that, it should have happened faster once people had decided that it was necessary. A+B remain in alpha channel, C+D into charlie channel. If it is still too noisy, and especially if those two squads are getting sent to different bases, that dual squad channel splits again.
    I agree totally, I think there was simply a lot of confusion last night, which coincided with us splitting comms and opening a public platoon all at the same time. Lessons learnt I think - I most certainly won't keep a squad I'm SL'ing in the shame channel as another if we're in different locations for sure. I feel bad

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfftble View Post
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    ... and it's only your first loop through this. It's my fourth...

  18. #18
    Lesser Hivemind Node sinomatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cei View Post
    Lessons learnt I think - I most certainly won't keep a squad I'm SL'ing in the shame channel as another if we're in different locations for sure. I feel bad
    Sometimes being in separate places isn't an issue, just as sometimes being in one big mumble channel isn't an issue. It really depends on what's happening, how chatty people are, and if people are in different bases that they append everything they say with which base they're at (e.g. "Enemy Gal to the north at Mao Tech")


    Additionally, I wanted to add to my 'vague' comment - I realised later on that it probably wasn't as quiet for those who had their in-game chat turned on, but I'd (potentially misheard) someone say that the RPS people didn't need to listen to it, so I didn't bother. It also became less quiet and vague in terms of chat and orders as the evening went on. I just meant in a general, overall way compared to 'normal' RPS play.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    I thought last night seemed to bring out some of the best and the worst of RPS:

    The best
    1. We had fun (I certainly did).
    2. We capped a continent (the sense of achievement added to my enjoyment).
    3. We had a successful public platoon (props to Cooper et al for running that so effectively).
    4. We maintained some semblance of organisation in our own platoon (props to Wardancers et al for managing that despite the noise and confusion).

    The worst
    1. We had some different views about comms with the result that we didn't split up cleanly and things got confusing and messy at times.
    2. We ended up zerging around a little at times (by which I mean, 20+ people in vehicles waiting for a facility to cap - probably a result of the comms and the situation, not a personal dig at anyone).
    3. Orders weren't followed. We're not a strict outfit but we probably need to have some sense of discipline at following orders etc. because otherwise the idea of teamplay reduces to a noisy mumble channel of banter whilst we behave like the public zerg. There's still plenty of room for noise and banter whilst at least being in the right location and working together.
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  20. #20
    Lesser Hivemind Node sketchseven's Avatar
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    We do need to get better at splitting up the comms; it's a fairly straightforward process, even just to go from one channel to AB + CD. PS2 seems resilient enough to alt-tabbing that actually moving in Mumble shouldn't take too long, and I think we have enough people around now who have the binds set up for RO/SL that it should be easy.

    For reference: Alpha and Bravo into Alpha Squad Grunts Channel, squad leaders into Alpha Squad Leader channel (and PL if they are not already an SL). Charlie and Delta into Charlie Squad Grunts Channel, squad leaders into Charlie Squad Leader channel.

    Won't comment on behavioural things other than to mention we do have people for human relation problems and if there are issues with behaviour in-game or on Mumble that you felt were not acceptable - send one of us a message.

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