Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 56
  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,574
    Valve could be entirely successful pushing OpenGL without Linux. Given the possibility of android ports which are still a lot of work but probably less so than a DirectX port and Windows 7 coverage, it's a plausible outcome.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NEuro Troika Franchulate #3
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    They only support Ubuntu but that's not enough - even when upgrading between Ubuntu distros you can still get major issues. Even then not everyone wants to use Ubuntu. What I meant was they need to pick a distro and effective adopt it and build Steam into it (or maybe build the distro around Steam)... which is allegedly what they're aiming for. There are far too many issues with Linux, particularly when it comes to compatibility, for Valve to really manage it any other way. Particularly when it comes to OS or component updates, which sometimes add very few useful features but frequently break compatibility. Again, see Why Linux Sucks.
    They have the so called Steam Linux Runtime. It's just frozen versions of certain packages required to run Source games. It can and has been ported to other distros. Arch has it in the repos.
    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Terra Australis Incognita
    Posts
    4,525
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    Valve could be entirely successful pushing OpenGL without Linux. Given the possibility of android ports which are still a lot of work but probably less so than a DirectX port and Windows 7 coverage, it's a plausible outcome.
    Unless the Xbone literally dies overnight, that's unlikely to happen. I think we've overestimating Valve's pull with AAA devs, and Valve aren't going to try to dictate how games get made (especially considering what Source is like, who the hell would listen to them?) to the AAA sector. Slightly different story with indies I guess, but authorware packages like Unity are already cross platform so no problems there.

    Remember the late 90s/early 2000s when pretty much every game came with both a D3D and OpenGl renderer? And sometimes a software-mode renderer as well? Those were good days.

    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    They have the so called Steam Linux Runtime. It's just frozen versions of certain packages required to run Source games. It can and has been ported to other distros. Arch has it in the repos.
    But the updates, man! Think of the updates! I don't know what new features they add and it breaks a bunch of apps, but god damn updates!
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NEuro Troika Franchulate #3
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Unless the Xbone literally dies overnight, that's unlikely to happen. I think we've overestimating Valve's pull with AAA devs, and Valve aren't going to try to dictate how games get made (especially considering what Source is like, who the hell would listen to them?) to the AAA sector. Slightly different story with indies I guess, but authorware packages like Unity are already cross platform so no problems there.

    Remember the late 90s/early 2000s when pretty much every game came with both a D3D and OpenGl renderer? And sometimes a software-mode renderer as well? Those were good days.


    But the updates, man! Think of the updates! I don't know what new features they add and it breaks a bunch of apps, but god damn updates!
    OpenGL perhaps, but I used to see more Glide, for the 3dfx. There are even competaibility layers.

    As for Steam, updates means they just do what Microsoft does, and just allow different version to coexists, AKA DLL Hell. It's probably more manageable on Linux, though.
    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,960
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    They only support Ubuntu but that's not enough - even when upgrading between Ubuntu distros you can still get major issues. Even then not everyone wants to use Ubuntu. What I meant was they need to pick a distro and effective adopt it and build Steam into it (or maybe build the distro around Steam)... which is allegedly what they're aiming for. There are far too many issues with Linux, particularly when it comes to compatibility, for Valve to really manage it any other way. Particularly when it comes to OS or component updates, which sometimes add very few useful features but frequently break compatibility. Again, see Why Linux Sucks.
    That sounds like even more of a nightmare to me than picking a popular distro and making Steam play nicely with it. Stick to the LTS versions and you have a sane time frame in which to make sure your games play nicely with the latest version which isn't all that different from the time frame between major Apple or Microsoft upgrades. Managing an entire distro and building all the necessary components of a successful distro in addition to all the things Valve normally does? That's kind of nuts.

    As for not everyone liking Ubuntu ... well, not everyone likes Windows either. You win some you lose some.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Terra Australis Incognita
    Posts
    4,525
    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Managing an entire distro and building all the necessary components of a successful distro in addition to all the things Valve normally does? That's kind of nuts.
    It's worth the effort though if they integrate the Steam store deeply into the distro... in other words, doing what Microsoft did with Windows 8 and the Windows Store. I have no doubt Valve would love their own SteamOS. They can pick a popular distro, fork off it, and just play with it to see what's stable and what isn't in their own little, Steam-oriented world. It's not nuts, it's quite possible.

    As for what Valve normally does - well, apparently they're just buying up teams and slapping the Valve sticker on the game, and we do know they've been setting up little skunkworks to investigate all sorts of various elements, so it's not far-fetched at all.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,960
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    It's worth the effort though if they integrate the Steam store deeply into the distro... in other words, doing what Microsoft did with Windows 8 and the Windows Store. I have no doubt Valve would love their own SteamOS. They can pick a popular distro, fork off it, and just play with it to see what's stable and what isn't in their own little, Steam-oriented world. It's not nuts, it's quite possible.

    As for what Valve normally does - well, apparently they're just buying up teams and slapping the Valve sticker on the game, and we do know they've been setting up little skunkworks to investigate all sorts of various elements, so it's not far-fetched at all.
    Fair enough. It's not that far-fetched. I still don't think it's as necessary as you do or that Ubuntu is as unstable as you make out. That said, games are especially unstable pieces of software, and the fewer variables the better so there's something to be said for making a gaming OS that focuses on stability for games--not just steam. Something that one-ups Windows in that department, too, while we're at it.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  8. #28
    Firstly developers in general won't use it.. and the very few that do won't get sales from PS4 or PC market so it won't catch on.. How can MS not see this?.. anyway I'm on Linux for my next OS.. I'm sick of MS iron grip on the OS and all the dicking about they pull

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    It's worth the effort though if they integrate the Steam store deeply into the distro... in other words, doing what Microsoft did with Windows 8 and the Windows Store. I have no doubt Valve would love their own SteamOS. They can pick a popular distro, fork off it, and just play with it to see what's stable and what isn't in their own little, Steam-oriented world. It's not nuts, it's quite possible.
    I would say there is a 99% certainty that this is exactly what they are doing somewhere.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,960
    Quote Originally Posted by Micheldemono View Post
    Firstly developers in general won't use it.. and the very few that do won't get sales from PS4 or PC market so it won't catch on.. How can MS not see this?.. anyway I'm on Linux for my next OS.. I'm sick of MS iron grip on the OS and all the dicking about they pull
    Linux is nice and small, so why wait? I have a multi-OS system and I love the flexibility it gives me. I'm currently running Win7, Win8 and Ubuntu 12.04. I've had more than that before, but I just never used more than two or three enough to justify it. So instead I have a bunch of bootable flash-drive OSs floating around.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NEuro Troika Franchulate #3
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Linux is nice and small, so why wait? I have a multi-OS system and I love the flexibility it gives me. I'm currently running Win7, Win8 and Ubuntu 12.04. I've had more than that before, but I just never used more than two or three enough to justify it. So instead I have a bunch of bootable flash-drive OSs floating around.
    I out-geek you.
    I have Win7, Fedora 18 and Mint 14. Sure, the Linuxen are for school, but if I hadn't games to play I would surely run Fedora singlehandedly. If we see a surge in ports AND wine gets really good, I might start thinking about changing my main OS.
    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,574
    I use Win 7, but oddly enough my completely untechnical fiancee has completely switched to Linux.

    After her computer broke she started using a spare netbook that irresponsibly had windows 7 on it (it just didn't have the horsepower). She was crying and almost threw it when she lost some of her work because it couldn't handle her 130 page manuscript on googledocs. Buffer overflows made using word painful. Puppy linux turned a doddering netbook into a functional laptop, and completely changed her attitude towards her pc. Our couchputer runs Mint and she couldn't be happier with it.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NEuro Troika Franchulate #3
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    I use Win 7, but oddly enough my completely untechnical fiancee has completely switched to Linux.

    After her computer broke she started using a spare netbook that irresponsibly had windows 7 on it (it just didn't have the horsepower). She was crying and almost threw it when she lost some of her work because it couldn't handle her 130 page manuscript on googledocs. Buffer overflows made using word painful. Puppy linux turned a doddering netbook into a functional laptop, and completely changed her attitude towards her pc. Our couchputer runs Mint and she couldn't be happier with it.
    Linux is perfect for the "casual" user. Since nearly everything is transitioning to browsers now, Linux has a great advantage.
    Too bad most businesses are still stuck with Word, and LibreOffice is not yet up to par.
    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,960
    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    Linux is perfect for the "casual" user. Since nearly everything is transitioning to browsers now, Linux has a great advantage.
    Too bad most businesses are still stuck with Word, and LibreOffice is not yet up to par.
    I think LibreOffice is just fine if you don't have to worry about perfect compatibility with the latest version of Microsoft Office especially since the latest version of Microsoft Office doesn't typically have perfect compatibility with past incarnations, has lots of trouble with inter-product (as in Excel to Word) transitions, and has an astounding number of bugs for something that has become the no-exceptions standard just about everywhere. Excel is an exceptional product, and LibreOffice doesn't quite match up in that department and as awful as it is I prefer the Microsoft Word equation editor of the LibreOffice one. But Word is just so bloated and even more lightly featured products than LibreOffice could easily replace it for most users. I'm tempted to say the same about Powerpoint--most presentations don't need all the bells and whistles.

    I'm not going to go all "raw text editors are the best, everyone should use LaTeX" because that's silly. But simpler text editors for simple text purposes really ought to become the norm. MS Office is slow, obnoxious, and just utterly unworth my time and effort despite it's overall more robust feature set ... except for the annoying part where everyone expects you to use it anyway.

    On a brighter note, I agree that Linux is great for casual users. It's really fast, really light, and can be very user friendly if you grab the right distro or have someone set the right distro up for you. It's the mid-level users that get lost in Linux and get hung up on all the conflicts and incompatiabilites that come with the open source world but can't quickly and easily find their way back out of the mess when things get, from time to time, tangled. Power users ... well that depends entirely on what type of power user they are. Goes both ways.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 03-07-2013 at 03:49 AM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,574
    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    Linux is perfect for the "casual" user. Since nearly everything is transitioning to browsers now, Linux has a great advantage.
    Too bad most businesses are still stuck with Word, and LibreOffice is not yet up to par.
    I really wish someone would make an automatic syncing (every time it autosaves) extension between LO and googledocs. Google needs something like that since the docs suite is ass for writing papers or spreadsheets in, but absolutely great for quick interpersonal communication. LO could use the parity with the upcoming Skydrive feature. I'd like it if Writer got a new default typeface, prettier charts for Calc, and integrated pinta with Draw, but it's still doing a great job. I've been particularly impressed with Calc. It's weird, now I'm using three separate office technologies for slightly different use cases, and lamenting the long-running failures of each. It's like they're parts of the document editing triforce.

    I think MS will get office software to where it needs to be first, but I'll like LOs solution better when it comes around. I've seen shit for google docs development compared to the other two.

    But yeah, puppy is lightning fast. I never thought an operating system could make that big a speed change. If a steam OS could do that for games, equally specced pcs could even have an advantage even over the much-mentioned and poorly understood "direct to metal" coding of console games. After all, the Xbox One's OS is taking a hellacious 3 gigs of dedicated RAM to run. I know coding for systems makes a difference, but enough to overcome a 2.9 gig Ram difference (2.5 in the case of Ubuntu)?
    Last edited by Internet; 03-07-2013 at 03:50 AM.

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,960
    Optimization isn't Microsoft's strong suit, so I'm not shocked. But damn, that's a heavy RAM cost.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,658
    Xbox does not take 3 gigs to run. It's 3 gigs FOR the OS + Apps in the background. It means vid recording, messaging, or any other type of APP (Say, Nintendo/Sony style remote play for Apps only but also while main games play) can still run or save and have instant access during play. It saves them fitting an SSD really.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,960
    Quote Originally Posted by TechnicalBen View Post
    Xbox does not take 3 gigs to run. It's 3 gigs FOR the OS + Apps in the background. It means vid recording, messaging, or any other type of APP (Say, Nintendo/Sony style remote play for Apps only but also while main games play) can still run or save and have instant access during play. It saves them fitting an SSD really.
    It's a lot of baggage though. I wonder if the features will get enough use to justify it. Probably yes, but we'll see.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NEuro Troika Franchulate #3
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    I really wish someone would make an automatic syncing (every time it autosaves) extension between LO and googledocs. Google needs something like that since the docs suite is ass for writing papers or spreadsheets in, but absolutely great for quick interpersonal communication. LO could use the parity with the upcoming Skydrive feature. I'd like it if Writer got a new default typeface, prettier charts for Calc, and integrated pinta with Draw, but it's still doing a great job. I've been particularly impressed with Calc. It's weird, now I'm using three separate office technologies for slightly different use cases, and lamenting the long-running failures of each. It's like they're parts of the document editing triforce.
    Not sure if Google exposes that API. If you sync the files to Google Drive, don't they appear on Google Docs? That's only one-way sync though, no Google Docs to LO.
    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,574
    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    Not sure if Google exposes that API. If you sync the files to Google Drive, don't they appear on Google Docs? That's only one-way sync though, no Google Docs to LO.
    I don't know, but presumably it's doable because someone started an extension a few years back to do so. It works in some cases.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •