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  1. #21
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    Just throwing it in there, in the finest RPS pun tradition; Die Luftgirwaffe?

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
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    I read Luftgirwaffe out loud and instantly thought of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I think what Kanye West is going to mean is something similar to what Steve Jobs means. I am undoubtedly, you know, Steve of Internet, downtown, fashion, culture. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I am God's vessel. But my greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live.



  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Last night's again squad was again fun, I even managed my longest ever liberator run and my first piloting ribbon - thanks Ostgut for both! We worked on tightening up up protocols a bit, so here's the latest on how to run an air squad (please all step in and add/correct the bits I miss out/get wrong).

    Load outs
    Ground crew
    2 * Ammo sundies with AA guns each driven by one engineer and at least one must have AMS
    2 * skyguards each driven by one engineer
    Best if the PL and any SLs/ROs are in the ground crew so they can focus more on beacons, relaying info and waypoints.

    Flying giraffes
    Varies but the above ground crew worked quite well with about 12 giraffes in the air split at different times across:
    - battle gals (1 pilot, 2 gunners)
    - liberators (1 pilot, 1 or 2 gunners)
    - scythes
    All pilots and gunners are engineers

    Set up
    1. Get a target area from PL
    2. Find a quiet spot near the target with flat ground, out of sight of turrets (at one point we had a problem with a friendly turret being hacked and shooting at our safe zone) with few or no trees in the area.
    3. Park up the two sundies in a line (nose to tail) and deploy one of them. Skyguards stay near but not in the safe zone (eg 20-50m away)
    4. Put sqaud beacons down next to the sundies to mark two of the four landing bays.
    5. Plant smoke along the line that friendly aircraft will naturally follow when returning from the target area.
    6. Tell PL you're operational.

    Operations
    Air ops
    I'm not best placed for writing the air bit but the general theme is 'be cautious' as running out of resources can be an issue. Just outright avoid areas with heavy AA concentration but inform PL of this and ask for the ground pounders to take out the AA. Also best to use in game prox chat when communicating between pilots and gunners (though I was bad for not doing this last night). Also pay attention to the landing layout and protocol (see below). Also, be careful when landing.

    There's a whole section to be written about air combat and use of wingmen etc. I'm not well placed to do that bit.

    Ground ops
    - Put squad beacons on the safe zone
    - Put platoon beacon on the taget
    - If the safe zone is busy inform the squad and ask for incoming air to wait unless they are burning.
    - If the (friendly) aircraft land away from the sunderers politlely remind them to park in one of the four landing areas (being left and right sides of each of the two sunderers).
    - Repair the aircraft when they land.
    - Man the AA in the sundies whenever enemy air is in effective range of the safe zone.
    - Keep passing messages between PL and the airsquad (eg requests for targetting enemy vehicles, redeployments, enemy forces and movements, significant enemy AA positions) - I was a little bad at this last night, sorry. The RO channel seemed busier than usual!
    - Give the air crew notice and a temporary safe zone (ie a techplant or tower) to use when redeploying the safe zone. Update squad waypoints accordingly and use the platoon point to temporarily mark the new safe zone location.

    Please add, edit, comment. It would be good to keep this up to date (and on the website?) so that we don't forget what we've learned. I appreciate there's a risk of sharing our trade secrets on open forums but I think more harm would be done by not sharing our experience for our own future benefit. The enemy are rarely motivated or organised enough to find this stuff and then take advantage of it. RTRS - if you come hunting for our safe zone I'll take great pleasure in meeting you with AA!
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyTrooper View Post
    4. Put sqaud beacons down next to the sundies to mark two of the four landing bays.
    5. Plant smoke along the line that friendly aircraft will naturally follow when returning from the target area.

    - Put squad beacons on the safe zone
    - Put platoon beacon on the taget
    Beacons or waypoints?

  5. #25
    Lesser Hivemind Node Cei's Avatar
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    I'm really interested in this - cert'd in to a Skyguard and spent some SC on Bulldogs for my gal and upgunning my lib. That said, I still really need somebody to mentor me on flying well!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cei View Post
    I'm really interested in this - cert'd in to a Skyguard and spent some SC on Bulldogs for my gal and upgunning my lib. That said, I still really need somebody to mentor me on flying well!
    Gal bulldogs are at that awkward 250C/500SC price point.

  7. #27
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    I wasn't in the air squad yesterday but i have two things (1 bad, 1 good) that are worth talking about re-the air squad.

    The bad thing : it seems the setting up of the air squad disorganises the main platoon a fair bit.

    One of the first time we tried it, i was PL. LaKroy suggests air squad. More than half the platoon leaves, leaving all 12 infantry. Yesterday i was TacGir SL, and i suddenly noticed that half my squad vanished. I still don't know what exactly happened, but i later remembered that at least 2 members were interested to be part of the air squad. If others joined, that would explain the disappearance of 6 people in about 15 min (which mean the TacGir squad was mostly dead) .

    I understand that air squad is fun and popular. But can we at least 1- warn leaders that when you re joining air squad, so that we can get a better idea of what % of the main platoon is gonna leave 2- Maybe limit the number of people in air squad depending on the number of people of main platoon? You can't ask the main platoon to provide you targets when it's down to a single squad.
    Not sure if 2 is applicable / sensible but proposition 1 definitely is.

    Ok on to the good thing : role of the air squad.

    Yesterday my squad was sent to get Geodyne back. It was empty, we spawn camped. Then all hell broke loose : lots of plane in the air. Seemed there were gals also, but i couldn't see much infantry on the ground.
    It was WASP, known for their air skills. It's the first time i fight against them but it seems they proceed as follow : go with maximum air, get air control, then gain ground control by bombarding with libs, finally send ground troops.

    We couldn't regroup/get back on point, because they pounded us from above. Granted, we were only a squad against them, but it still seemed a valid strategy (think they also succeeded at Cobalt against 2-3 squads).

    We think of our air squad as support, but what i saw yesterday seems to indicate that WASP do it the other way around.
    Would be able to do something similar? Send massive air, squad opposition, get on ground?
    Last edited by Ksempac; 04-07-2013 at 01:50 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyTrooper View Post
    Last night's again squad was again fun, I even managed my longest ever liberator run and my first piloting ribbon - thanks Ostgut for both! We worked on tightening up up protocols a bit, so here's the latest on how to run an air squad (please all step in and add/correct the bits I miss out/get wrong).
    All my pleasure Wally! You were a fine example of an immortal lib pilot! Until you flipped the damn thing!
    I'd like to suggest lib pilots (it's something i noticed you not doing that much wally(no offense)) accustom a way of flying with their belly is pointed forwards (nose pointing up) while flying in a straight line. The way you do this is by pointing your nose up while flying and using the descend key to kill your upward motion with your vertical thrust. It's the opposite way of flying a scythe faster while utilizing the vertical thrusters. This way your gunner can spot the situation on the ground in front of you much easier and the gunner can always call out when evasion will be needed and you have eyes on the sky.

    That said i'm far from an expierenced lib pilot/gunner but i'm sure going to try getting better at it. I really enjoy the teamwork involved in manning liberators!

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Good advice, I'd not thought to do that. I fly everything the same: nose down with vertical thrusters on for extra speed. Will switch it up for libs in future.
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  10. #30
    Activated Node HexPen's Avatar
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    Wally I've sketched your outline of a set up into a diagram. I find it helps me understand things better. Is this what you had in mind?



    Apologies for tiny size again. It's small, even on clicking. I'll work out how it's done properly one day.

    Edited to adhere to TrooperWally's vision and embiggened.

    Last edited by HexPen; 04-07-2013 at 03:32 PM.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HexPen View Post
    Wally I've sketched your outline of a set up into a diagram. I find it helps me understand things better. Is this what you had in mind?
    Pretty much and thanks for making it, much clearer than my words. Looks like you've smoke in both the north and the south (in this diagram). What we'd actually do is have smoke in a line running in one direction (eg a line of smoke off to the north, none in the south).
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wallytrooper
    4. Put sqaud beacons down next to the sundies to mark two of the four landing bays.
    5. Plant smoke along the line that friendly aircraft will naturally follow when returning from the target area.

    - Put squad beacons on the safe zone
    - Put platoon beacon on the taget
    Beacons or waypoints?
    Please clarify this one Wally.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LaKroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksempac View Post
    The bad thing : it seems the setting up of the air squad disorganises the main platoon a fair bit.
    Yes, this was very noticeable. Infantry takes bases and we become very ineffective if we lack that. We should keep an eye on the numbers we have available and avoid draining the main platoon. The air squad was only supposed to be 12 people, but can easily take more. We have been running with about 18 when it peaks. I don't know if stopping people from doing what they like is a good idea. However, if it helps keep up the enjoyment for the rest of the platoon it might be sensible to limit the air squad to 12 members when we have low numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksempac View Post
    Ok on to the good thing : role of the air squad.

    ...

    We think of our air squad as support, but what i saw yesterday seems to indicate that WASP do it the other way around.
    Would be able to do something similar? Send massive air, squad opposition, get on ground?
    We could definitely try this. Soften up and lock down the target with air, then roll in on the ground. A potential problem could be if the target has sufficient amounts of AA, which makes airstrikes difficult.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Please clarify this one Wally.
    Yes, sorry, I was mixing the terms up. Correct version
    4. Put squad (spawn) beacons down next to the sundies to mark two of the four landing bays.
    5. Plant smoke along the line that friendly aircraft will naturally follow when returning from the target area.

    - Put squad waypoint on the safe zone
    - Put platoon waypoint on the taget
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  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    So here's my take on last night, what went right, what went wrong. I was on the ground for about 2 hours and flew for about an hour.

    The Good -
    -We've lots of people interested

    -We seemed to lose less Scythes

    -We got a few out of platoon players making use of our facilities.

    -Our Safe Zone went unharmed most of the night.

    -Overall we seemed to be effective.

    The Bad -
    -Mumble was too noisy.

    -Proximity chat was either not used or terrible for people trying to use it.

    -Whatever plan we made (the one on here) for flying into and out of the safe zone was seemingly abandoned. Mumble got very noisy with people trying to explain how we should use a grid system of smoke and sundies and skyguard and pilots should land in grid locations or that we should have people fly to yellow, slow down at purple, stop at green, or to call out their name, squad number and type of repair they need.

    I honestly do not understand why we don't just have pilots come in from the direction of the fight, land, repair, then fly away from the base away from the fight and they can make a nice loop around in open air space. People are tying to make this super complicated and there's no reason for it. Finding a nice open area, with some protection from turrets seems to work the best in my opinion. It's plenty of room for people to move around. Don't fear the idea of tanks rolling towards us, we can move out in a matter of seconds.

    -Foot squad. We'd too many people on the ground. I think we need to start keeping track more of how to keep people in the air, either through buying them scythes, rotating ground crew or filling up Libs instead of just two manning them I do think though that we need to abandon this idea of 4 on the ground as a maximum number. If we've 24 players, we should increase it to at least 6 or 8. Don't forget that of those 4 on the ground, 2 should always be in the Skyguards in case we get buzzed. That leaves just two people for repairing and when it gets busy you need more than that.

    -Marking and calling locations properly. I don't know if it's because its double xp weekend but people just weren't marking targets up last night. Other's would call in things like "TR gal!" (where?) or "TR gal north". North of where? The safe zone, the base we're attacking?. Please remember, mark your targets and call them out at a location.


    Overall I felt last night wasn't as successful or as fun as previous ones. Either we didn't have enough air to fight or we were being underused by the main platoon or we where missing something. I don't like the idea of pilots leaving their scythes to cap bases, so maybe we do need a small group of infantry to move in and do that. Too much time was spent over complicating things in the safe zone.

    *EDIT*

    Last night I discovered I like flying Libs. I flew Gribles around for some time before we eventually got shot down. Then I found out that at some point in my life I bought the Dalton. Totally going to spec my Lib up now.
    Last edited by Jesus_Phish; 05-07-2013 at 09:48 AM.
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  16. #36
    Network Hub Skhalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Mumble got very noisy with people trying to explain how we should use a grid system of smoke and sundies and skyguard and pilots should land in grid locations or that we should have people fly to yellow, slow down at purple, stop at green, or to call out their name, squad number and type of repair they need.
    Well that does sound like RPS. Were terrible puns made in the process?

  17. #37
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    I too would be very hesitant to start telling people to play on foot. We've not run air squads very much before so at the moment there is a novelty factor. It will calm down once people have had a go a bit.

  18. #38
    Last night was my first time with the air squad. I really enjoyed it, but didn't fully know how things were meant to work and picked it up as we went.

    I just wanted to add my 2p and respond to a few points raised above:

    Diagram - Very handy, much clearer understanding of how it should work. The key thing is to keep it simple. We don't need different colours meaning different things. We just need to know where to land for ammo/repairs. You could argue that we don't need to inform ground crew of our arrival unless it's an emergency (the assumption being that if you're landing, you need ammo/repairs).

    In practice, we had a few teething problems, but I think it organically came together after a while. One issue I noticed at the Mekala Tech Plant was that the smoke didn't seem to render at distance. Whether this was normal or due to the size of the fight (there was a LOT of enemies), I'm not sure. Should we have smoke at ~25m intervals leading to squad waypoint?

    Calling Targets - I was at fault here as well. Not sure if it was inexperience, tiredness or laziness, but I didn't always call or specify target position well. Hopefully we'll improve with this as a whole. I wasn't aware of us flying in pairs/groups, so I just kept heading out looking for targets or joining others in the sky.

    Recommended Loadouts - Question: I was rolling my standard AA setup (Hailstorm and A2A), which is great for Mossies/Reavers, ok for solo Infantry (just have to line them up), but not so good with clumped infantry/vehicles. You can't redeploy if you've rolled the wrong armaments, so is there a recommended loadout we should try to use? I'm not great with A2G, but should I use it anyway? What about the PPA? This question will apply even more with the ESF updates that are incoming.


    Overall I had a great time (especially the suicide air at the end of the night) and hope to be of more use next time around.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    I probably contributed to the over complication (apologies) but it seems last night (which I wasn't involved with) was a whole other level. It's a matter of opinion but my vote would be to call a spade a spade and a safe zone a safe zone. Forward operating base is fun sounding but less clear and more syllables. Re: the flight paths I originally just put smoke up for a laugh. If it's complicating things unnecessarily I'd be well up for completely ignoring it. If I've learnt a general lesson from my 8 months with RPS it's that we love to make systems and rules but don't have the discipline (collectively) to follow them at all times but still get upset when they're not adhered to. Perhaps air squad/TopGir is a chance to keep things suitably flexible?

    Most of all though I think Surlywombat's right. In a month or so the initial novelty will have worn off mostly and we'll be left with a group of people who really just enjoy a bit of gentle AA or bombing. In the meantime perhaps best to think of everything as an experiment and not try to finalise the protocols (which is exactly what I was doing yesterday in the forum... oops!).
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  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dewi's Avatar
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    I actually really enjoy being a part of the ground crew. I have a pretty decked out Skyguard Lightning and fairly upgraded ammo sundy, as well as max repair tool on my engi, so would definintly be interested in keeping to the ground crew in future, with the odd occasion of gunning Vastros Lib.

    I find it quite relaxing actually, especially after a hard days (IRL)work.

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