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  1. #701
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    I'm all for the movie being different than the book -- but if you're going to make it very much different, why name it after the book? Why not just take the extra half-step to making your own movie, or is it just a coasting-on-the-name-recognition thing?

    (I have never actually seen A Clockwork Orange...I'm thinking here mainly of some utterly abominable book-to-movie "translations", in particular -- Howl's Moving Castle -- that alter things so much that you might not be able to tell the two are related if not for the title being the same...Blade Runner doesn't really fit in there because they did in fact change the title -- but I haven't seen that either...mainly I just wanted to post something here so I could feel involved...I'll go now).
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  2. #702
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzee View Post
    I'm all for the movie being different than the book -- but if you're going to make it very much different, why name it after the book?
    Because it's the same story as the book. Just not down to every little detail because the media are different and things don't translate well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berzee View Post
    I have never actually seen A Clockwork Orange
    Do yourself a favor and go see it. It's not what Burgess would have done, but I think Kubrick's a better movie director than Burgess.

    As for piss-poor book-to-movie translations, well duh, and I can think of maybe three movies that were as epic as the books they took their cues from, but that doesn't change the principle of the thing: They're not 1:1 translations.
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  3. #703
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    They're not actually 1:1 translations
    Still, I would like to see more of those. =) Some of the movie versions of Jane Austen stories do a pretty faithful recreation of the books, and I never thought they suffered for it (though those books are so exhaustively detailed it's possible there are tons of differences I just don't notice).

    In other news, I think I've got The Clockwork Orange confused in my head with James and the Giant Peach.
    Is the Orange book worth reading too? Maybe I will read it someday when I begin reading new things again.
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  4. #704
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Still, I would like to see more of those.


    Well the time scale of the book versus the movie means that you probably will never get that. Also really whats the point? The book is there read it, I think a film version should go its own way, in fact some of the best film versions of books are anti the book which is kind of true with Clockwork Orange, its clear Kubrick didn't agree with Burgess in the film.

  5. #705
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzee View Post
    Still, I would like to see more of those. =) Some of the movie versions of Jane Austen stories do a pretty faithful recreation of the books, and I never thought they suffered for it (though those books are so exhaustively detailed it's possible there are tons of differences I just don't notice).

    [...]

    Is the Orange book worth reading too? Maybe I will read it someday when I begin reading new things again.
    Dry costume dramas are dry costume dramas. Whatever skill Jane Austen had in crafting a story, the life was drained out in order to make inoffensive movies.

    Everything Burgess wrote is worth reading. I'd suggest, on top of ACO, The Wanting Seed and the Enderby cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    Well the time scale of the book versus the movie means that you probably will never get that. Also really whats the point? The book is there read it, I think a film version should go its own way, in fact some of the best film versions of books are anti the book which is kind of true with Clockwork Orange, its clear Kubrick didn't agree with Burgess in the film.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
    Hell, Chuck Palahniuk stated that he liked David Fincher's ending to Fight Club more than his own.
    Last edited by Nalano; 16-03-2012 at 06:38 PM.
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  6. #706
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    If you get to read The Clockwork Orange (if your edition is similar to mine) you'll notice that there is a glossary. Don't use it. I found it when I finished the book. I saw that there were a lot of pages left and there it was, all the rare words I didn't understand at first. I was a bit frustrated with that discovery but I enjoyed the book a lot more without knowing the meaning of the words beforehand.

  7. #707
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    I started reading A Clash of Kings a pretty long time ago (second part of a Song of Ice and Fire by GRR Martin) but I stopped reading because things started going so badly for the good guys that I couldn't get myself to continue. But I'll have to finish it someday before the second season of Game of Thrones comes out.

  8. #708
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livebythesword View Post
    I started reading A Clash of Kings a pretty long time ago (second part of a Song of Ice and Fire by GRR Martin) but I stopped reading because things started going so badly for the good guys that I couldn't get myself to continue. But I'll have to finish it someday before the second season of Game of Thrones comes out.
    You've only got ~16 days. Season 2 starts April 1st in US, April 2nd in UK. Although, if you thought ACoK had things going badly for the good guys, you might not want to read A Storm of Swords... Although things tend to go badly most people, good or bad, in that.

    I highly recommend it, however, especially if you're watching the TV series... The series has been fantastic so far, and from what I've read, it's shaping up to continue that way. But, the TV show does have to compromise, it's inevitable*, and the books really are, in my opinion, the better medium for the story. I had a friend who started watching, and loving, the TV series. Then after it had all aired, she mentioned she was going to pick up the books, so I loaned her my copies. She's nearly finished the 2nd book, and loving it, and says she's really glad she's reading the books before seeing the series, so as not to have the TV series (no matter how good it is) somehow spoil the books. People's mileage may vary on that though... there will be people that would never read the books, but will watch and love the TV series, or people that will prefer the TV series to the books.

    *A good example of this I recently read, was GRRM's original script treatment for the moment in the first series when Robb calls his bannermen, and the Ravens fly. He wrote and described a really epic sequence, showing the Ravens arriving, and all of the Lords and whatnot calling their men and preparing to march, and marching out... showing all the diversity of the Nortmen, all the big names and locations. He sent it to the two guys (Benioff & Wise) who run the show, and they responded that it was fantastic, and they'd love to do it... If they had 5-10 times the budget, and an extra 2-4 hours runtime for the series. GRRM conceded, he understands (from working in TV) that there does have to be that compromise, and that his 1st drafts are for himself largely, he knows he'll have to cut away at that, and that, to keep the show profitable and supported by HBO, there can't be a 100% translation of the book to the screen.
    Last edited by Unaco; 16-03-2012 at 10:26 PM.
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  9. #709
    I just read What It Was by George Pelecanos, and I heartily recommend it. Pelecanos wrote for The Wire and The Pacific, and he's a prolific crime writer too. It's set in 1970s D.C., and while it's not exactly deep it's well written, fast paced and exciting. Pelecanos's love of the city and his memories of it create a real sense of atmosphere. Worth a read for sure if you're into American crime novels.
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  10. #710
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    You've only got ~16 days. Season 2 starts April 1st in US, April 2nd in UK. Although, if you thought ACoK had things going badly for the good guys, you might not want to read A Storm of Swords... Although things tend to go badly most people, good or bad, in that.

    I highly recommend it, however, especially if you're watching the TV series... The series has been fantastic so far, and from what I've read, it's shaping up to continue that way. But, the TV show does have to compromise, it's inevitable*, and the books really are, in my opinion, the better medium for the story. I had a friend who started watching, and loving, the TV series. Then after it had all aired, she mentioned she was going to pick up the books, so I loaned her my copies. She's nearly finished the 2nd book, and loving it, and says she's really glad she's reading the books before seeing the series, so as not to have the TV series (no matter how good it is) somehow spoil the books. People's mileage may vary on that though... there will be people that would never read the books, but will watch and love the TV series, or people that will prefer the TV series to the books.

    *A good example of this I recently read, was GRRM's original script treatment for the moment in the first series when Robb calls his bannermen, and the Ravens fly. He wrote and described a really epic sequence, showing the Ravens arriving, and all of the Lords and whatnot calling their men and preparing to march, and marching out... showing all the diversity of the Nortmen, all the big names and locations. He sent it to the two guys (Benioff & Wise) who run the show, and they responded that it was fantastic, and they'd love to do it... If they had 5-10 times the budget, and an extra 2-4 hours runtime for the series. GRRM conceded, he understands (from working in TV) that there does have to be that compromise, and that his 1st drafts are for himself largely, he knows he'll have to cut away at that, and that, to keep the show profitable and supported by HBO, there can't be a 100% translation of the book to the screen.
    Pretty much agree, but I think there's a fairy good chance of the later series' being better than the later books
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  11. #711
    Network Hub Cable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Hell, Chuck Palahniuk stated that he liked David Fincher's ending to Fight Club more than his own.
    That's funny I much preferred the ending in the book. Also you've reminded me I need to read a clockwork orange too

  12. #712
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Fuck faithful translations. The medium is different.
    This reasoning leads to abominable movies like I Am Legend. Sure it can work, but I'd wager the result is shite more often than not, sort of like porting games from console to PC.
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  13. #713
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fumarole View Post
    This reasoning leads to abominable movies like I Am Legend. Sure it can work, but I'd wager the result is shite more often than not, sort of like porting games from console to PC.
    Abominable movies come from abominable directors. There's nothing you can do about that.
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  14. #714
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Starship Troopers is an interesting case study. As a translation of the novel the film is abominable, apparently deliberately so. As a work in itself, however, the film is a wonderful satire not (as intended) of the novel, but rather of contemporary American militarism. There's an article on Cracked somewhere highlighting the various uncanny parallels between the film and the War on Terror which makes for funtimes reading.

    In the end its simply unfortunate that the two works happen to share the same title, particularly because the film now feeds into popular perception of the book -- where said perception was already a particularly virulent example of Chinese whispers into which the actual content of the novel never really figures. Which isn't to suggest that the novel is a literary or philosophical masterpiece -- it is what it is: an adolescent-level introduction to various concepts of moral philosophy wrapped around a story about guys with guns in powered armour.

    The more I think about it, the more apt the comparison with Ender's Game seems.
    Last edited by Rii; 17-03-2012 at 05:48 AM.

  15. #715
    Lesser Hivemind Node Keep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep View Post
    I'm being a massive wanker and reading Proust. Slight redemption: I'm really not enjoying it. But I started, and I've got this annoying quirk of not wanting to condemn something before I've really given it the best chances, so here I am. Dammit.
    Welp, finished it finally. Nothing but scorn for it by the end. Rubbish. Oh wellz.

  16. #716
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ravelle's Avatar
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    I'm walfway through Mass Effect: Ascension.
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  17. #717
    Network Hub corbain's Avatar
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    Just finished Dickens "Oliver Twist" and must say how enjoyable it was. Quite easy to read, short chapters made progress feel easier perhaps. I have the gamer addiction of needing to complete some "stage" to get satisfaction.

    It's the first i've read from my Folio Society collection of his complete works which I bought a few years ago. I really should post some pictures of my bookeshelves here.. i'm making it my mission to turn my house into a library, in the mould of this place:


  18. #718
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    Finished 'The Ambassador's Mission' - that was fun as anticipated, though perhaps she hopped around the 3 main characters a little too quickly - It feels like a scene only just begins and it's ending again. Still, took me 3 afternoons to read, and does a better job at 'the mages circle' than Dragon Age ever did.

  19. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jockie View Post
    However, the constant pop culture referencing kinds of floats into self-indulgence
    I completely agree with all of this. I liked the concept of Ready Player One, but it often degenerates into little more than a vehicle for the author's own obsession with 80s pop culture. It's a bit much. Entertaining fluff, a fun read but a little disappointing.

    (One important example of implausibility: I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who instantly caught on to the reference in the first clue. Anyone even a little bit familiar with Gary Gygax would get it, but apparently it stumped millions of obsessive "gunters" for years.)

  20. #720
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    Just finished "The Painted Man" (or The Warded Man in some regions). Not bad, but not great either. Certainly I'll try to get my hands on the second book. Characters plot etc. all range from average to good, but I did have a few niggles. The time lapses in the writing seem a little odd- not between chapters, but every now and then it'll jump forward as though there was once text there, but it got cut to speed up the story.

    Also, as someone not normally annoyed by this kind of thing, the repeated use of "an herb" made me confused, annoyed and then angry. It appears strangely often in the text and I have to pretend that the h is silent with everyone speaking in a midlands accent.

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