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  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    Pratchett's pretty great. I used to consider him a Douglas Adams wannabe, but he can spin a good yarn in his own way. Obviously he's been fortunate enough to be around and write a lot more than Adams.
    Yeah, they've similarities? But I wouldn't really compare them. Adams tended a lot more towards the completely surreal, and Pratchett makes more of a narrative. I also think Pratchett's works have more of a social message, or at least he's not afraid to spell it out to the reader. Both of them are/were magnificent authors, though.

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
    So "Colour of Magic" turned out to be incredibly entertaining - I certainly plan on reading more. But I took a detour to read "Alloy of Law", and I didn't find it very convincing - the whole Western+Batman+Criminal Minds thing didn't quite gel, although the end suggested that some interesting stuff may be planned for the future, so I'll keep an eye on that.
    Funny, that. Alloy of Law is my second favourite book in the mistborn setting precisely because it's a kung-fu batman western. Opinions: how do they work?

  3. #1623
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Funny, that. Alloy of Law is my second favourite book in the mistborn setting precisely because it's a kung-fu batman western. Opinions: how do they work?
    Oh my. Does this mean that, in true RPS forum fashion, we now have to argue for 3 pages to establish our opinions as objective truth while disparaging the other as "liberal subjectivism" or something?

    Anyway. I did enjoy the book, and I devoured it just as quickly as the other ones. It's just that I thought the smaller-scale stuff was less interesting. And I was a bit disappointed by the... I guess the word would be "determinism"? - that came upon the setting. I mean, as if after the world was remade it *had to* follow a technological path that is a bit too close to our Western one for my comfort.

    And I think I'll always giggle when I read "Waxillium". Seriously, what possessed Sanderson to come up with that name?

  4. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
    Oh my. Does this mean that, in true RPS forum fashion, we now have to argue for 3 pages to establish our opinions as objective truth while disparaging the other as "liberal subjectivism" or something?

    Anyway. I did enjoy the book, and I devoured it just as quickly as the other ones. It's just that I thought the smaller-scale stuff was less interesting. And I was a bit disappointed by the... I guess the word would be "determinism"? - that came upon the setting. I mean, as if after the world was remade it *had to* follow a technological path that is a bit too close to our Western one for my comfort.

    And I think I'll always giggle when I read "Waxillium". Seriously, what possessed Sanderson to come up with that name?

    As a writer myself, names are hard. Please take pity.

    I can dig those opinions. It's certainly a long jump away from the rest of the mistborn series in terms of scope and setting. As for the western thing... Yeah I mean determinism's clearly the way to put it - you can tell he just wanted to have this turn of the 20th century feel going on (with extra magic and so on), and the rest of it gets worked around that.

    But that aside, have at you, you camel-mannered, tunic-wearing mollycoddle!

  5. #1625
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Yeah, they've similarities?
    It's more to do with me than them. Just an early, misguided perception I once had.

  6. #1626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    It's more to do with me than them. Just an early, misguided perception I once had.
    Ah, fair enough! I can certainly understand the thought - it's even one I've had recently (Since I've started reading Wee Free Men)

  7. #1627
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    Interesting that someone would compare Pratchett and Adams - I've read both extensively and don't really see a connection.

    DNA thought so much about his stuff and wrote so little - but what he created was seminal, sharp and deftly constructed with many layers of content and a lot of underlying message.

    TP is the opposite really - he lets all his ideas out to roam, often with varying levels of success, but it took a long time before his work actually contained anything more than "comedy characters in a fantasy setting" (abeit will written ones).

    It really is worth making your way through it though because there are real gems inamongst some more humdrum works. What he's done with some stuff is properly remarkable the way he diverted the Witches stuff into a really nice "Witches are just women who are smarter than you think they are" thing is particularly great given they've sort-of fallen into a more teen market (where the message should resound better anyway).

    Then there's works like The Truth which is so clever on so many levels - it came almost out of nowhere in terms of having a deeper message.

    All when he could simply have riffed on a walking trunk and a grim reaper who called his horse Binky...

  8. #1628
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Interesting that someone would compare Pratchett and Adams - I've read both extensively and don't really see a connection.
    They both satirize genre conventions of fantasy. It's as straight-forward a comparison as can be.
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  9. #1629
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    They both satirize genre conventions of fantasy.
    Do they? I read plenty of Douglas Adams growing up. He never seemed to write, write about, or satirise fantasy. Science fiction, yes. But I don't remember much fantasy being in there.

    I always saw Pratchett and Adams as somewhat similar, due to the satirising of their genres by the both of them (Adams and Sci-fi, Pratchett and fantasy). And their very... British senses of humour. That was about it though... I could read Adams happily, but couldn't stand Pratchett.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
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    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
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  10. #1630
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    SF&F are largely the same genre wearing different clothes. One throws a fireball, the other uses a Heckler-blufond P-1500 atomic disassembler. One consults the gods, the other one consults an AI.

    Sure, hard SF is something else but most SF is soft as it comes, and pretty much fantasy for it.

  11. #1631
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    Do they? I read plenty of Douglas Adams growing up. He never seemed to write, write about, or satirise fantasy. Science fiction, yes. But I don't remember much fantasy being in there.
    Science fiction is fantasy. You think the character of Zaphod Beeblebrox was steeped in any higher understanding of physics and biology?
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  12. #1632
    I also bracket Adams and Pratchett together to an extent. I think it's due to the style of humour, which tends to be too broad for my tastes. It reads too much like 'young adult' fiction to me.
    "Oh, evolution. It wasn't meant for everyone."

  13. #1633
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drinking with Skeletons's Avatar
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    I'm currently re-reading Hellboy and its various spin-offs. If you haven't read it, B.P.R.D. is basically Lovecraft meets XCOM.

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by glimpse fade yelp View Post
    I also bracket Adams and Pratchett together to an extent. I think it's due to the style of humour, which tends to be too broad for my tastes. It reads too much like 'young adult' fiction to me.
    Strange how so many say that like an insult, when many of the best stories I've ever read are 'young adult'.

  15. #1635
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    SF&F are largely the same genre wearing different clothes. One throws a fireball, the other uses a Heckler-blufond P-1500 atomic disassembler. One consults the gods, the other one consults an AI.
    I think that's something of a simplistic reading of the two genres. I can't really agree with that. There are similarities, sure. And you could replace God with AI, or Elves with aliens if you want... but that's usually bad writing if that can be done just like that. To say they're the same is awfully unfair to both genres, especially these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Science fiction is fantasy. You think the character of Zaphod Beeblebrox was steeped in any higher understanding of physics and biology?
    Yes, actually. Well, maybe not Zaphod himself... But a lot of Adams' work was informed by biology, mathematics, physics etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  16. #1636
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Strange how so many say that like an insult, when many of the best stories I've ever read are 'young adult'.
    I certainly didn't intend it as an insult, just an opinion on the style. I agree, there have been some excellent books written for young adults and children.
    "Oh, evolution. It wasn't meant for everyone."

  17. #1637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    I think that's something of a simplistic reading of the two genres.
    That's correct. That's all it was intended to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    I can't really agree with that. There are similarities, sure. And you could replace God with AI, or Elves with aliens if you want... but that's usually bad writing if that can be done just like that. To say they're the same is awfully unfair to both genres, especially these days.
    They tell somewhat different stories (sometimes), but they both fundamentally use an abstract, tweaked version of reality to explore aspects of the human condition in a larger than life setting. In what way is Dune not a fantasy story? Grand old emperors, evil tyrants, a prophesied hero with mystical powers. Witches, prescience, politicking, living gods. Even if things aren't always directly analogous, 'any sufficiently advanced technology...' springs to mind.

  18. #1638
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    Quote Originally Posted by glimpse fade yelp View Post
    I certainly didn't intend it as an insult, just an opinion on the style. I agree, there have been some excellent books written for young adults and children.
    Ah. Fair enough, some slight conclusion jumping on my part.

  19. #1639
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    They tell somewhat different stories (sometimes), but they both fundamentally use an abstract, tweaked version of reality to explore aspects of the human condition in a larger than life setting. In what way is Dune not a fantasy story? Grand old emperors, evil tyrants, a prophesied hero with mystical powers. Witches, prescience, politicking, living gods. Even if things aren't always directly analogous, 'any sufficiently advanced technology...' springs to mind.
    I concur that there are similarities and cross over, at times... as with Dune. Although, it also has many features that wouldn't be considered Fantasy... The spacing guild and navigators and their reliance on mathematical calculations (also essentially what Paul does), Terraforming of the planet, the ecology of the planet, Butlerian Jihad.

    And there are just as many examples of Science Fiction that can in no way be considered 'Fantasy'. In what way is "A Fall of Moondust" fantasy? Or "The Forever War"? Sci-fi can diverge completely from fantasy... It isn't just a subset of Fantasy.

    To take the old Serling line... Fantasy is the impossible become probable, Sci-fi the improbable made possible.
    Last edited by Unaco; 30-08-2013 at 09:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  20. #1640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    I concur that there are similarities and cross over, at times... as with Dune. Although, it also has many features that wouldn't be considered Fantasy... The spacing guild and navigators and their reliance on mathematical calculations (also essentially what Paul does), Terraforming of the planet, the ecology of the planet, Butlerian Jihad.

    And there are just as many examples of Science Fiction that can in no way be considered 'Fantasy'. In what way is "A Fall of Moondust" fantasy? Or "The Forever War"? Sci-fi can diverge completely from fantasy... It isn't just a subset of Fantasy.

    To take the old Serling line... Fantasy is the impossible become probable, Sci-fi the improbable made possible.
    I think you're perhaps overstating my case, though I was being unclear for the sake of brevity. Allow me to say it in a better way. Sci-fi and fantasy are two circles in a venn diagram with significant, but not total, overlap.

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