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10-07-2013, 09:30 PM #1
Civ V: Brave New World discussion
Picked this up yesterday, and wow have they changed a lot of stuff. I gave up after a few hours when I realized I had no clue how to effectively manage the new culture victory conditions. When I get some more time I'm going to start over on a lower difficulty level so I can re-learn the game.
Most intriguing addition: Trade routes can be used to share (surplus?) food and production from one of your cities with another. Don't fully understand it yet, but the possibilities seem rich indeed. Trade in general seems to be a great addition, and it's much more user-friendly than I expected.
Most intriguing change: Cultural victories no longer seem to be shackled to empire size, though defending against them still requires a small geographic footprint. You can rack up policies like a madman now (Poland seems especially well-suited to doing so).
Most frustrating addition: Cultural victories seem kind of complicated. It now reminds me much more of some sort of euro-style boardgame, what with having to fill up various bars to accrue special tokens (works of art) to, in turn, fill up another bar. I think it will ultimately be an improvement, as it certainly requires more involvement from the player, but the game does a really poor job of explaining it.
Thoughts so far?
10-07-2013, 09:55 PM #2
I wont' know until Friday because it's not out in Euroland yet >:|
10-07-2013, 10:00 PM #3
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
since 2010, it seems the devs have made knee-jerk reactions to literally everything the players used to do or complain about
many high-risk, high-reward elements have become low-risk, low-reward
the wide spectrum of viable builds has been systematically trimmed, forcing every empire to be mid-sized
they made your land and resources dictate your playstyle more and more which means less interesting decisions and more obvious ones
I think it's probably a more interesting game for people who don't enjoy being forced to make hard decisions and can't handle being punished for playing poorly
But even if decisions are less important, the more hardcore players can still find ways to compete. It'll probably be more subtle. Stacking up tiny advantages over the course of a long game will still result in victory, but I think it'll take much longer
10-07-2013, 11:40 PM #4
The cultural victory conditions and the non-aggressive late gameplay were sort of rubbish. I'm looking forward to the Euroland unlock...
Gamespot's only criticism is that it doesn't come with the content from the previous expansion...
11-07-2013, 12:54 AM #5
1) How much culture you have. Works of art are like miniature culture bombs and/or miniature wonders.
2) How much culture they have. Culture can now be used defensively.
3) Why they should care about you. In this sense, religion, diplomacy and trade becomes paramount: If you want to influence those far-flung guys who don't have a clue who you are, caravans, diplomats and missionaries will all propagate cultural diffusion in the form of tourism. If your tourism rating is higher than their cultural rating, you have effectively conquered them. This works both ways: Opening trade to another cultural center sees your citizens awed by theirs, too.
This means a few properties that were not extant in previous iterations of Civ5:
1) Small empires are not necessary for cultural victory: You only lose out on social policies that way, not total cultural output, and the end-game for cultural victory is based on raw cultural output and your ability to exploit it - either through trade, religion or diplomacy (all of which give bonuses to cultural diffusion).
2) That means that it's not just a passive race for top culture pick. It also means that in order to beat another cultural juggernaut, you may have to bomb him - figuratively or literally - or censure him with the new World Congress. The World Congress is another arms race: You spend delegates on votes, and victories give you more delegates for the next World Congress. In that way, it's forcing pacifists to interact with the world.
3) Ideology is a means of passively causing unrest in all your neighbors: If you are one of the three ideologies and you're being successful, all the less successful neighbors of the other two will start clamoring for change. This also works both ways: If your citizens are discontent with you, they will seek out nations of opposing ideologies.
4) That means that happiness can be used offensively, just as in Civilization 4.
All in all, there's a lot more to do other than war with one another.
11-07-2013, 03:00 AM #6
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
it's not culture victory. it's based on tourism output...
and tourism is a late-game thing that grows slowly whereas culture is going to build up earlier and in larger quantities. basically it's impossible to achieve against a competent opponent
11-07-2013, 03:32 AM #7
Tourism is only generated by having cultural buildings, and only defended against by generating culture. How is it not a culture victory?
11-07-2013, 04:02 AM #8
This sounds awesome. I scoffed at the price for an expansion, but it really sounds great.
Has anyone played the included scenarios? What're those like?
11-07-2013, 06:51 AM #9
I've discovered something potentially gamebreaking:
Now that social policies are coming in a lot quicker, Piety becomes quite powerful in the right hands. Completing it gives you a great prophet for a religion, as well as an extra "reformation" religious ability.
One of the base religious abilities you can get is either pagodas, cathedrals or mosques. They act as buildings you can purchase with faith in any city that has your religion. One of the reformation religious abilities is to have any building purchased with faith grant 2 tourism.
Normally, tourism only comes with a great work by a great writer, painter or musician, which takes quite a long time, and likely won't be seen at all for the first few eras. This allows you a trickle of tourism long before anybody else has any, as well as giving you a way to exploit it for greatest possible effect: Civilizations you trade with get 25% more tourism, civilizations who share your religion get 50%.
Because culture is something of a snowball effect that takes a long time to build up, if you beeline for this premature tourism and are blessed with nearby rubes, you can dominate them with your blue jeans and rock music way back in the medieval era.
11-07-2013, 01:36 PM #10
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Newcastle Upon Tyne
11-07-2013, 02:31 PM #11
I wasn't too sure about whether or not buying this expansion, but Nalano's description has me sold. Go collect your paycheck, Sir.
- If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -
11-07-2013, 03:13 PM #12
11-07-2013, 03:15 PM #13
Apparently I can play this from today, so GMG tells me. Unless they mixed up their dates. Either way I'll find out when I get home and either be super happy or super disappointed.
11-07-2013, 03:22 PM #14
11-07-2013, 04:09 PM #15
wait wait wait. it isnt released for me yet, is it in the US yet?
also I bought it on wednesday already, a copy for me and my steam lan account/my colleague's account.
11-07-2013, 04:10 PM #16
11-07-2013, 05:00 PM #17
Sorry to be a carper, but has the 'friendly AI will turn hostile at the blink of an eye because you're doing well even though you've shown no hostility whatsoever' issue been toned down at all?
11-07-2013, 05:16 PM #18
11-07-2013, 05:48 PM #19
Has anyone else noticed that the AI seems less expansionist than before? I've particularly noticed it with Egypt (who, nevertheless, remain my eternal nemesis). They seem to be building fewer cities, but they're being more aggressive in terms of investing in non-military approaches, such as sending out missionaries (curse you, Isabella!) and establishing trade routes.
11-07-2013, 05:51 PM #20