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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    Catholicism takes this further. It's really a polytheistic religion in disguise. Catholics can pray to and pay homage or whatever to saints. The patron saint of this or that is the same as the god of this or that, essentially.
    Good point about saints. There is certainly some worship towards them, they have their shrines here and there. Speaking of the Trinity, only 2 of them are really talked about. The Holy Spirit... can anyone say anything about it ? What is it supposed to BE or DO ? I have no clue, and I was raised a Catholic (atheist now). It looks like something left for backwards compatibility.

    Speaking of disguises, what is crucifix if not an amulet ? What about Holy Water ? They're not merely symbols, they grant 200% damage to undead and improve saving throws.

    So far the discussion has been quite civil, so I'll continue with Buddism. Buddism has a romantic air about it. It's the religion of peace and tolerance, right ? Their respect for life is proverbial. Not quite:

    Of all the moral precepts instilled in Buddhist monks the promise not to kill comes first, and the principle of non-violence is arguably more central to Buddhism than any other major religion. So why have monks been using hate speech against Muslims and joining mobs that have left dozens dead?


    (...)
    While no Muslims have been killed in Sri Lanka, the Burmese situation is far more serious. Here the antagonism is spearheaded by the 969 group, led by a monk, Ashin Wirathu, who was jailed in 2003 for inciting religious hatred. Released in 2012, he has referred to himself bizarrely as "the Burmese Bin Laden".
    (...)
    On Tuesday, Buddhist mobs attacked mosques and burned more than 70 homes in Oakkan, north of Rangoon, after a Muslim girl on a bicycle collided with a monk. One person died and nine were injured.
    (...)
    But however any religion starts out, sooner or later it enters into a Faustian pact with state power. Buddhist monks looked to kings, the ultimate wielders of violence, for the support, patronage and order that only they could provide. Kings looked to monks to provide the popular legitimacy that only such a high moral vision can confer.

    The result can seem ironic. If you have a strong sense of the overriding moral superiority of your worldview, then the need to protect and advance it can seem the most important duty of all.


    So, historically, Buddhism has been no more a religion of peace than Christianity.


    One of the most famous kings in Sri Lankan history is Dutugamanu, whose unification of the island in the 2nd Century BC is related in an important chronicle, the Mahavamsa.

    It says that he placed a Buddhist relic in his spear and took 500 monks with him along to war against a non-Buddhist king.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22356306

    There goes the myth. It saddens me that even Buddism doesn't make you immune to zeal.
    pass

  2. #42
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    What the actual fuck are you talking about? I'm not in any body's face? I'm not preaching to anyone, trying to incite an argument, etc. It seems to me that YOU are the one trying to start an argument with your patently false idea that "Atheists are just like Religious people". I won't give you the satisfaction.
    Yet you're getting upset and arguing with me? Calm down, buddy.

    It kind of proves a point. If we're more interested in being right than we are in conversation or actually caring about that person, we're doing it wrong. By being automatically dismissive, mocking or ridiculing others, we're exercising that very attitude.

    So, yeah... Civil discussion=good; Pot shots=bad.

  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    So, yeah... Civil discussion=good; Pot shots=bad.
    Remind me what your schtick about Seattle pride parades was, if not a pot shot?

    I don't care that you want to argue this shit, as you clearly do; but please don't be hypocritical about it.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    So, yeah... Civil discussion=good; Pot shots=bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    But seriously, that attitude has as much appeal as a fire & brimstone sermon being delivered at a Seattle pride parade.
    "Do as I say and not as I do"... And so endeth today's lesson.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  5. #45
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    It was intended as an illustration, not a pot shot. The idea was that talking to people in ways (and in situations) that they will clearly find insensitive and/or offensive is iffy. Immediately addressing religious individuals (or anyone on the "other side"), with mockery and things they'll find offensive is kind of an insincere approach. I guess we're offended here that with the idea that mocking folks might be a bad approach?

    If I've ruffled feathers, as I clearly have, it was not my intention. It was intended to provide a little perspective, not an insult. I kind of care about that, so I have no problem apologizing.
    Last edited by deadly.by.design; 16-07-2013 at 06:46 PM. Reason: because I always hit save too soon

  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    Immediately addressing religious individuals (or anyone on the "other side"), with mockery and things they'll find offensive is kind of an insincere approach. I guess we're offended here that with the idea that mocking folks might be a bad approach?
    Who said I wanted to mock Religious individuals? I said I think all Religions should be treated with the same derision (they're all Fairy tales in the end). But I said nothing about the followers of Religions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  7. #47
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    This doesn't belong in PC GAMING DISCUSSION,so it should be closed. Mod,please.

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    This doesn't belong in PC GAMING DISCUSSION,so it should be closed. Mod,please.
    Better just transferred to Off Topic, but the last time that happened the mod couldn't countenance relinquishing his authority by moving the thread beyond his jurisdiction.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    Good point about saints. There is certainly some worship towards them, they have their shrines here and there. Speaking of the Trinity, only 2 of them are really talked about. The Holy Spirit... can anyone say anything about it ? What is it supposed to BE or DO ? I have no clue, and I was raised a Catholic (atheist now). It looks like something left for backwards compatibility.
    I'm very rusty on my new testament, but the Holy Spirit is the tongue of flame that descended over the Apostles in Acts and let them speak every language. A more recent way of putting it would be that the Holy Spirit is the spark of the divine that resides within all individuals. Where the God of the Old Testament and Jesus are separate figures from creation, the holy spirit is the numinous essence of creation that works inside itself for the furthering of the divine plan. It's actually the latest concept of the trinity. I wish that it's contemporary counterpart, Sofia the female spirit of wisdom, had also become part of the Roman Catholic doctrine.

  10. #50
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    My last bit in the OT-ness of this thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    Who said I wanted to mock Religious individuals? I said I think all Religions should be treated with the same derision (they're all Fairy tales in the end). But I said nothing about the followers of Religions.
    Just something to think about the next time someone gets offended by someone calling their lifestyle sinful (or wrong, or whatever). If you can think all faiths are RPing fairytales, then someone else can think a behavior is wrong while still loving the individual as a person.

    /ontopic // turningpage

    I'm pretty sure I picked up Machinarium in a past Humble Bundle, but haven't gotten around to doing more than installing it. It's at least interesting that they chose to include something like this in the game's world.
    Last edited by deadly.by.design; 16-07-2013 at 07:04 PM.

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    The important thing is that you should all play Machinarium and enjoy its incredible soundtrack.

    @Drayk: I count Sands of Time, Warrior Within, 2008 and Forgotten Sands all as reboots, even if they take place within the same "universe."

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    You can spin the digression off into an Other Stuff thread your own selves if you want. =) Machinarium's use of multi-faith robot church as puzzle and world-building element is interesting enough that I would not like to move it! =P

    I haven't actually played much past the intro, so I haven't seen that part, but it does sound like a successful little scene. That's probably because it displays the external affects of religious services on a neighborhood, instead of delving into the internal "spiritual experiences" of the churchgoers. (I think games do a lot better, or at least it's easier to do a decent treatment, when showing you the externals and leaving most of the internals up to your understanding of common human experiences...if that makes any sense).
    Last edited by Berzee; 16-07-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    I'll try to salvage the thread by turning it into religion in games.

    What other games can you recall that have some interesting religion in the background, and not of the "good healing priests/evil cultists" variety ?
    pass

  14. #54
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    I'll try to salvage the thread by turning it into religion in games.
    RELEVANT: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...unny-sometimes

    (not trying to dredge up the thread or push this one aside or anything; it's just a good historical read and has a "hee nee nee" Age of Empires priest joke in it =P)
    Last edited by Berzee; 16-07-2013 at 07:43 PM.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    What other games can you recall that have some interesting religion in the background, and not of the "good healing priests/evil cultists" variety ?
    Dragon Age comes to mind for me. I found the Chantry interesting in that it's not a simple black/white dichotomy.
    The Medallion of the Imperial Psychopath, a Napoleon: Total War AAR
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  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    By the by, does Machinarium actually do anything with "religion" in the game? Or does it just make a funny by having robots go to church and then making robot denominations that go to church at different times? I suppose I could beat it myself and find out =P In any case, I think I like it best as a "haha these robots are doing a human thing sort of" moment.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fumarole View Post
    Dragon Age comes to mind for me. I found the Chantry interesting in that it's not a simple black/white dichotomy.
    The chantry are quite interesting in that the chantry (reverend mothers, lay priests, etc) seem to act a bit like the CofE. bumbling priests. But attached that is the templars, who are full on Teutonic Order by way of the Spanish Inquisition, and just as vile. I wish they'd done more with that mash of ideological extremes, but it's the bioware way to back out of saying anything interesting at this point.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzee View Post
    By the by, does Machinarium actually do anything with "religion" in the game? Or does it just make a funny by having robots go to church and then making robot denominations that go to church at different times? I suppose I could beat it myself and find out =P In any case, I think I like it best as a "haha these robots are doing a human thing sort of" moment.
    That's all there is to it, for better or worse. Everything is robotized in Machinarium, there seems to be only one living creature in the game.
    pass

  19. #59
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drayk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    I'll try to salvage the thread by turning it into religion in games.

    What other games can you recall that have some interesting religion in the background, and not of the "good healing priests/evil cultists" variety ?
    Yeah... I think Xenogears take on religion was quite interesting back in the days. While a harsh critique of the church it still provided a Theist view of world with the contact and the wave of existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by db1331 View Post
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    *Mostly* harmless

  20. #60
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    Blood for the Blood God

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