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  1. #21
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    massive tanks? did we play a different game?
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  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dariune View Post
    game with zero replay value
    Game isn't finished until you get THE ACHIEVEMENT.
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  3. #23
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    massive tanks? did we play a different game?
    Heavy Weapon Platforms?
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  4. #24
    Network Hub Splynter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    Heavy Weapon Platforms?
    I think he meant the "massive" part. They were what, 2x2? So more like compact cars in size. They did, however, kick massive ass in the early game.
    I take photos of space and talk about it sometimes: http://ofspaceandthings.tumblr.com Also, I am making a game for which there is a development log: http://elegythegame.tumblr.com/

  5. #25
    Network Hub Squirly's Avatar
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    The hover with the smart launcher was always pretty useful, at least until your soldiers outstripped it in accuracy and everyone was equipped with a flying suit and the same launcher. Everyone. ​I suppose I miss not being able to flatten the whole map if I wanted to.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splynter View Post
    I think he meant the "massive" part. They were what, 2x2? So more like compact cars in size. They did, however, kick massive ass in the early game.
    The SHIVs in EU are 1x1 in size. They still are useful as an expendable scout if you can afford making them.

    XCom: UFO had Heavy Weapons Platforms that were 2x2 in size, were great for scouting on landing and providing temporarily cover. Having a mobile rocket platform to open holes in buildings was great. Their size was "big", the size of a hoverdisk, unlike these R.O.B bomb squad robots in EU.

    I miss the threat of exiting the Skyranger and rookies dropping like flies from opportunity fire. Had to lay down the smoke grenades. But I do appreciate EU being a bit more streamlined for somethings. It does take away the value of replay though. Battles feel to similiar to each other.

  7. #27
    Network Hub Splynter's Avatar
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    Yeah, I know they tweaked the exit from the Skyranger so that people wouldn't be annoyed at their soldiers getting instakilled on the ramp, but there were enough ways to mitigate that risk that I never had too much trouble with it. Other than mind controlled rookies dropping grenades at their feet...
    I take photos of space and talk about it sometimes: http://ofspaceandthings.tumblr.com Also, I am making a game for which there is a development log: http://elegythegame.tumblr.com/

  8. #28
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    Ah yes, weaponless medic/scanner rookie. Also during a psi attack you are at the edge of your seat hoping the rookie retains some sanity so that you can get them to lose all weapons next turn. Those type of moments were recreated as well.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    All I can say is, while Ioved the game, it was a bit too simple in some aspects. Only one/two items allowed per missions with minimal customization to the kits were a bit of a let down and don't get me started on the bullshit accuracy the soldiers have early on.

    but really, I hope they stick to the formula while fixing a few things
    Last edited by Voon; 02-08-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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  10. #30
    Network Hub Squirly's Avatar
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    I want individual bullet chance-to-hit. None of this burst fire hitting or completely missing. That's just crap.

    Change the TB system to resemble Shadowrun Returns more. We shouldn't have to make a choice between running and shooting or JUST shooting. Why not shoot then run?

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurnau View Post
    The battles were okay, though not outstanding, but the researching, manufacturing, engineering and all that stuff with the comic book characters I found a bit too cutesy and cheesy. It should have been more gritty and less shiny.
    Really? I was so happy to have shiny over gritty. It was refreshing. I loved the aesthetic and atmosphere to pieces.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

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  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voon View Post
    All I can say is, while Ioved the game, it was a bit too simple in some aspects. Only one/two items allowed per missions with minimal customization to the kits were a bit of a let down and don't get me started on the bullshit accuracy the soldiers have early on.

    but really, I hope they stick to the formula while fixing a few things
    I liked the limited item choices. I can see two items making it feel hair more nuanced? But I think you'd need way more items to support units having two items at once and then it just loses a lot of the simplicity that made it so successful. I liked that it was simple in interface and simple in terms of what it asked of me while still being interested and complicated as a tactical battle game. I think it would be easy as hell to make it too complicated because while I agree it was a little too simple ... it wasn't so simple as to be bad and complexity could kill a lot of what made the whole package work. I think making the back-at-base stuff more complicated and the "grand strategy" part more complicated would be relatively safe, though ... I'd hesitate to change it with things like too much unit customization or too many more items and so forth.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

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  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    I liked the limited item choices. I can see two items making it feel hair more nuanced? But I think you'd need way more items to support units having two items at once and then it just loses a lot of the simplicity that made it so successful. I liked that it was simple in interface and simple in terms of what it asked of me while still being interested and complicated as a tactical battle game. I think it would be easy as hell to make it too complicated because while I agree it was a little too simple ... it wasn't so simple as to be bad and complexity could kill a lot of what made the whole package work. I think making the back-at-base stuff more complicated and the "grand strategy" part more complicated would be relatively safe, though ... I'd hesitate to change it with things like too much unit customization or too many more items and so forth.
    when I said it was too simple, I didn't mean to lump in the UI and the battlescape because that's two of the things that what Firaxis managed to do right. I just saying that they could just added an extra few things for kitting out before missions. They could've given the option for gun attachments rather than integrated it along with the item selections. They could've given the option to have some extra skyrangers to respond to multiple threats rather than just one. they could've done them both because I think it seems much more practical that way. cutting out those options seem pointless and just add in frustration to the experience. the game can still be challenging and have those options at the same time
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  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voon View Post
    when I said it was too simple, I didn't mean to lump in the UI and the battlescape because that's two of the things that what Firaxis managed to do right. I just saying that they could just added an extra few things for kitting out before missions. They could've given the option for gun attachments rather than integrated it along with the item selections. They could've given the option to have some extra skyrangers to respond to multiple threats rather than just one. they could've done them both because I think it seems much more practical that way. cutting out those options seem pointless and just add in frustration to the experience. the game can still be challenging and have those options at the same time
    Having the scope take up an "item" slot was a tad silly, for example. There were clearly trying to power it down while still making it cool. Weapon mods with, say, one slot per weapon would have done the same job better, but would have meant putting in the time to create and polish more weapon mods. Similarly "carrying" chitin plating and Nano-what-ever shirts was pretty weird. Again, having a slot on the armor would have fixed this but required more content--and thus more back-at-base expansion. This leaves the item slot itself kind of lonely since the armor and scopes and their non-existent cohorts are off in the weapon slot and the armor slot (side: armor slot would also be the right place for the Psi Helmet thing--sacrifice the extra HP protection of Chitin Plating for extra Psi defense), so that means even more items. Pretty soon, you've either got a lot of items, all told ... or at least one of the three slots doesn't have enough real choice attached to it--there's an item that just goes there, upgrade style. Of course, they weren't afraid to do exactly that with the weapons. The body armor had a legitimate customization feel to it; the final tier of armors wasn't straight-upgrade stuff. Archangel vs. Titan vs. Ghost vs. Psi. Each had serious advantages ... but the underpowered finale left those advantages somewhat unnecessary for a capable squad which made choosing between them all less interesting that it would have been if I'd been playing on a higher difficulty level.

    Point being I've changed my mind about the more items, but not about the more slots ... sort of--I'd like one slot per *type* excepting unit upgrades like the Support upgrade ... but three types of slots. And it so happens, adding more stuff than was in the first game without sacrificing core mechanics and polish is exactly what good sequels and expansions do so hopefully we'll see that come to fruition. Along with other things, obviously. Just more stuff is decidedly expansion territory.

    The skyranger thing is an excellent point. It felt odd to have so much capacity for extra soldiers and absolutely no need to max out the barracks or even to come close--let alone incentive to train raw recruits. Having two Skyrangers means you would never be able to save everyone when abductions come up and it would have meant that double/triple events like that could have been both more common and more catastrophic.

    While we're at it, I love the idea of having more grand strategy in general. Having something come up as you're heading back to base and choosing between leaping battle-to-battle with all the obvious consequences thereof or heading back to base to drop off the wounded and captured.

    Also I would love it if there were some persistence between games--plot relevance allowing, of course. I got so attached to my squad (the survivors at least); characters all. Obviously I won't see Sheriff (my Volunteer) again (and possibly Rohen, because he was injured in the final battle and we "won" before his three turns of bleeding ran out but they weren't carrying him out in the cinematic :P). But it would be really cool to be able to take those folks onto the next thing. I can always customize them into the game if there are enough tweak-able things and enough of the same head models ... but from a mechanical perspective, even if they change the subsystems, I really like the Arkham City philosophy of starting you off on a higher tier right from the start rather than setting you back to level 1 with all of your gear and weapons missing while also being expected to believe the plot picks up in the same place. It's different in a strategy game where, in theory, the squadies are all replaceable ... but still. It's sad enough that Vos and Sheriff can't be psychic sisters anymore and that Rohen and Sheriff's relationship has been ended by at least one, probably both, of their deaths. :(
    Last edited by gwathdring; 02-08-2013 at 05:59 PM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  15. #35
    Obscure Node Jurnau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Really? I was so happy to have shiny over gritty. It was refreshing. I loved the aesthetic and atmosphere to pieces.
    I didn't really find it refreshing. It seemed similar to the Anno 2070 aesthetic, where it was more appropriate.
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  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    I thought the missions were great, but the campaign overview could've used a lot of work (for starters the antfarm reminded me of Republic the Revolution's 3D environment. You'll only look at it once). Another game would be most welcome.

  17. #37
    I'd be happy just to have EU with actually functioning line-of-sight, more/better voices, maps that don't make it feel like the entire world is the outskirts of a minor city in the midwest US, and futuristic belt technology that lets soldiers carry grenades and clothes.

    Some slender models for the dudes and beefy models for the ladies wouldn't hurt either.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurnau View Post
    I didn't really find it refreshing. It seemed similar to the Anno 2070 aesthetic, where it was more appropriate.
    Not sure what you mean by more appropriate, and to be fair the Anno 2070 aesthetic might be familiar to Anno players and it isn't fresh out of the oven, but if it's a bit stale by the time it reaches Xcom, "gritty" is already not only decomposed but entirely taken up by plants and fungi. In a broader view of AAA gaming rather than just personal taste, I think we have enough gritty. Now, we don't have many of this kind of game at all, so wanting gritty XCOM isn't the same as complaining that Far Cry wasn't grity enough, for example. It's hard to be over-saturated with specifically "gritty" Turn Based Tactics games when they aren't that big a piece of the available pie in the first place.

    Anywho, what do you mean by more appropriate? I don't really think of "aliens invading Earth and us defeating them with Pluck and Science" as a canvas particularly more suited to a coat of grit as opposed to comic book-y, slightly cheesy shine.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    I'd be happy just to have EU with actually functioning line-of-sight, more/better voices, maps that don't make it feel like the entire world is the outskirts of a minor city in the midwest US, and futuristic belt technology that lets soldiers carry grenades and clothes.

    Some slender models for the dudes and beefy models for the ladies wouldn't hurt either.
    Body variety would have been cool. :D

    Also a few of the head models were eerily similar ... it wasn't a problem exactly, there were plenty of different heads. Just a couple of them were such minor changes from each other that it was a bit trippy. :P
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurnau View Post
    I didn't really find it refreshing. It seemed similar to the Anno 2070 aesthetic, where it was more appropriate.


    I'm with you on that,they had early concept which they trew away and it looked really way better,more realistic then final version which looks like something from FoxKids or CN.

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