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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Body variety would have been cool. :D
    And nationality selection. All-british team ftw.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    And nationality selection. All-british team ftw.
    I'm a bit more on-fence about that. I liked having an international team and having no direct control over where recruits came from. It made me feel more like an international task force. I could have done without having control of what their faces and hair looked like, too, and just being able to change the outfits. But that's the sort of thing you can always achieve by choosing not to customize things, and I really want to get my squad into the sequel even if they don't officially support the leap ... so I'm all for full unit customization in that sense. :P
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    see? thats the problem, you hoped for something "like the original".

    Its a different game. Its called XCOM because it is based on similarities, but it is, essentially, a remix.

    Also, I liked it a lot. It is a great game, in it's own right.
    XCOM: Enemy Within can easily be a remix of XCOM and MOBA, or XCOM and FPS. Maybe it will be a great game, in its own right.

    It's perfectly reasonable to expect the game to play "like the original" if it has "XCOM" in its name. If it's a great game "in its own right", then call it something else. You can't blame people for assuming they're not being misled.
    pass

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    XCOM: Enemy Within can easily be a remix of XCOM and MOBA, or XCOM and FPS. Maybe it will be a great game, in its own right.

    It's perfectly reasonable to expect the game to play "like the original" if it has "XCOM" in its name. If it's a great game "in its own right", then call it something else. You can't blame people for assuming they're not being misled.
    It's not misleading just because it's not like the original in the way some people expected it to be. It's entirely possible XCOM is too different. I haven't played the original. But this game had enough exposure before hand that no one had any need to buy it because they were "misled." I really think the developers, at least, believe that the most important parts of their game are shared with the original--or at least the most distinctive parts.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  5. #45
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    XCOM: Enemy Within can easily be a remix of XCOM and MOBA, or XCOM and FPS. Maybe it will be a great game, in its own right.

    It's perfectly reasonable to expect the game to play "like the original" if it has "XCOM" in its name. If it's a great game "in its own right", then call it something else. You can't blame people for assuming they're not being misled.
    to be fair, though, XCOM was only Terror From The Deep onwards. So you can do pretty much anything with the game, or genre, or whatever, because the original developers did too.

    Also, there are no rules. At all.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

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  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    to be fair, though, XCOM was only Terror From The Deep onwards. So you can do pretty much anything with the game, or genre, or whatever, because the original developers did too.

    Also, there are no rules. At all.
    Your statement is only true outside North America. It was marketed as X-COM: UFO Defense from the start, in North America. See also: Little Big Adventure vs Relentless: Twinsen's Adventure.

    Perhaps there are no rules, but there's simple sense of decency, and trust. If I hear someone advertising sports car, but he actually sells tractors, I lose interest and trust in that guy.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    UFO Enemy Unknown / XCOM: UFO Defense (1994)


    XCOM: Enemy Unknown (2012)


    This sums up my view on the remake. There's nothing wrong with Duplo bricks, you can have fun with them. But I prefer standard LEGO.
    pass

  7. #47
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    The only actual good thing that has happened this last decade with the term X-COM in it (in whatever form) is OpenXcom:

    http://openxcom.org/

    It fixes many of the original games issues, and well has all the stuff the new re-imaged versions lack (like a soul etc).

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Exactly. And I would love to get more. I hope they go the Civ5 route of expansions. ie. continually adding/changing/fixing gameplay to make replays more fun.
    Considering that has been Firaxis' MO so far as long as I know them (IE since Civ5) - it probably will be the case :)

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Wow, OpenXcom looks really neat. Screenshots are better, YAML for modding and rulesets. Is the AI good ? AI in Heroes2-3 rewrites is terrible.

    I would be really happy to find a similarly patched version of Terror From The Deep. I played it first, and I enjoyed it more. Both are colorful and quite cartoony, but UFO: Enemy Unknown looks more like Power Rangers. My savegame became stuck because of the research bugs.
    pass

  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZakG View Post
    The only actual good thing that has happened this last decade with the term X-COM in it (in whatever form) is OpenXcom:

    http://openxcom.org/

    It fixes many of the original games issues, and well has all the stuff the new re-imaged versions lack (like a soul etc).
    This looks cool!

    Also .... awwww, that's not fair. I thought XCOM totally had a soul. You don't have to like it, but do you really think it as a listless, pointless, fun-less AAA cash in? That's kind of harsh. Maybe you don't mean that, but that's what I think of when you say it didn't have soul.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  11. #51
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    dont bother, youre up against the martyrs of nostalgia. which is totally a band name Im going to use.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    But be honest with yourself,older look of new xcom looks way better then the final product.



    http://video.wikia.com/wiki/File:XCO...and_Commentary

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    But be honest with yourself,older look of new xcom looks way better then the final product.



    http://video.wikia.com/wiki/File:XCO...and_Commentary
    I disagree. I like the new XCOM well enough but it's not a continuation of the series, it's a different thing entirely. It is a good game even though it can be very buggy at times.

    I agree with people saying that it needs "more" though. Weapons, usables, maps, Skyrangers. And a better combat system. One with action points maybe.

  14. #54
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I like the new system. it should have more teamwork and synergies though.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    But be honest with yourself,older look of new xcom looks way better then the final product.

    http://video.wikia.com/wiki/File:XCO...and_Commentary
    I like it. I don't like it better. I prefer the new art style. Mostly it makes me want more map variety in the current game. Rural farmhouses, suburban neighborhoods. The works. :)

    And a better combat system. One with action points maybe.
    That's outside the scope of just "more" isn't it? I wouldn't want an action point system. I like this one but agree with QuantaCat that having more explicit mechanical synergy between units would improve it immensely. Suppression is cool. Suppression+Holo Targeting? Almost feels like normal suppression should do that by default because it makes for a more tactical and cooperative feel. Lightning reflexes is an excellent ability--it's cool, it feels powerful, it's great for that unit in particular ... but it opens up a host of cooperative options, too, in a way that abilities like Heat Ammo don't.

    Similarly, I wish critical wounds happened more often. Part of it's that I don't like my squad dying. Part of it's that "unfair" occurences are inevitable in a game that does not have complete information and losing a squad member doesn't give you any wiggle room. But more than either of those it's more interesting. You're still down a member for the rest of the mission unless you have a support with the Revive ability, and you have a time limit during which the unit can still die. That time limit? Really, really interesting decisions happened for me during those time limits. Even if there was nothing I could do and the unit still died? It felt more fair somehow. I had a chance. I could have given more soldiers medkits, I could have sent another soldier with them so they weren't entirely cut off. I could have taken the risk that another soldier would die to try to revive them. It's more interesting, and even if you have "Don't Die On Me" it's WAY too rare for my taste.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 05-08-2013 at 12:35 AM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caddybear View Post
    I agree with people saying that it needs "more" though. Weapons, usables, maps, Skyrangers. And a better combat system. One with action points maybe.
    Then play Xenonauts maybe?

    The AP removal makes the game a lot faster and it's much more intuitive than figuring out how many numbers make up a move here and then a crouch and etc. Yes, the AP system is more flexible, but it does slow things down quite a bit and without proper visual feedback it's cumbersome to work with. Xenonauts does a good job of it, but in some other games the AP requirements for various actions scale up with character development, making it fairly pointless.

    XCOM 2012 wasn't supposed to be a direct copy of the original, and implementing APs for movements would be a massive, fundamental change. That's not "more stuff", that's changing a core gameplay mechanic. It's balanced around getting two actions plus reaction shots, not APs. I mean functionally there's not a significant amount of difference for most of the time - you'd usually reserve APs for reaction shots or use them up staying still to snipe, so for most turns a soldier would only do one or two things anyway.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.

  17. #57
    Network Hub alset85's Avatar
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    But how fast do you want TBS to be? Why don't you go play starcraft? A lot of the emergent and clever things you could do in the first game were completely gutted due to lack of inventory and no AP.
    Steam ID ; GFWL: alset85

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alset85 View Post
    But how fast do you want TBS to be? Why don't you go play starcraft? A lot of the emergent and clever things you could do in the first game were completely gutted due to lack of inventory and no AP.
    The lack of inventory is what took out some of the "emergent" things, which for a lot of people is code for "doing silly things."

    A turn-based game is entirely different from an RTS, so trying to make that comparison is a strawman argument. What I don't want is to play a 45 minute marathon of "find the last alien at the crash site" when it should have ended within the first 10 minutes.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post

    A turn-based game is entirely different from an RTS, so trying to make that comparison is a strawman argument. What I don't want is to play a 45 minute marathon of "find the last alien at the crash site" when it should have ended within the first 10 minutes.
    Much agreed.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  20. #60
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    as long as it doesnt turn into a japanese anime style shout out your special powers style game, I like it the way it is, I just want more.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

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