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  1. #41
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    Yeah, at its core it's a simplistic puzzle game. I've said that in my first post here so, thanks I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    The Walking Dead, winner of 80+ GotY awards.
    Yes, TWD is another good example of how easily you can make "gaming journalists" suck your cock with a bad game. Actually TWD even pushes the definition of "game".

    Quote Originally Posted by lordcooper
    Care to suggest a few other ways of creating emotional involvement?
    This isn't the point. There's nothing wrong with trying to create emotional involvement, as long as you have something else to show for it. Basically: make a good game first, then add emotional involvement later. Not just make a crap game but oh, you added emotional involvement so it's suddenly deep, awesome, and worth of 80+ GotY awards because people will be so emotionally involved that they won't notice how basic and repetetive the mechanics are.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    This isn't the point. There's nothing wrong with trying to create emotional involvement, as long as you have something else to show for it. Basically: make a good game first, then add emotional involvement later. Not just make a crap game but oh, you added emotional involvement so it's suddenly deep, awesome, and worth of 80+ GotY awards because people will be so emotionally involved that they won't notice how basic and repetetive the mechanics are.
    Why not do it the other way?

    It's interesting to note that in almost every other medium it's the opposite to what you're suggesting - ie. films are judged first on story and characters, then on cinematography.

  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Films aren't games.
    I agree with the sentiment, if you are making a game, make it fun first, then add all the bells and whistles.
    But I don't think Papers, Please is unfun for those who would like the genre. The game part of it works and it is put together well. It's quite a niche genre, for sure, but it isn't a poorly made game.

  4. #44
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    The trick about PP is that it HAS an engrossing gameplay. It isn't extremely elaborate - but it doesn't have to be. Anyone claiming it is "simplistic" might want to try some of the 95% games out there, most of which consist on placing your mouse pointer on enemy head and clicking.

    Oh, and also it has great narrative, style, music and characters. And is unique. You know, details.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    Films aren't games.
    That was just an example. I guess I have to run through them all.

    Film: judged on plot, characters first, cinematography second
    Music: judged on songwriting first, technical skill second
    Dance: judged on technical skill first, story second
    Theatre: judged on plot, characters first, performance second
    Novels: tends to be equally split between plot, characters and technical ability of the writer

    The point being every single medium for artistic impression has something about it that makes it unique. In gaming it's the interactive ludic element.

    But that doesn't necessarily mean that should be the only or most important factor we judge it on. And in fact in plenty of other mediums that's not the case. It varies greatly. And in pretty much every medium there are examples of great works that cater to just one element and not the other. There are films that people go to see purely because they look amazing. There are musicians people love nearly entirely for their lyrics. And so on.

    So if you want to take the point of view that the only valid games are ones that put the unique ludic elements first, that's fine. But you're not allowed punk rock, pulp fiction novels or Clerks. They're not valid examples of their field as they don't put the ability to play instruments, great writing or amazing cinematography first.

  6. #46
    Network Hub Pertusaria's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, my boyfriend just started playing this because it was on my desktop, and he's engrossed. He doesn't follow the games press, so was unaware of the mild hype around this, although he plays Kongregate games and a few other things, so he's not a non-gamer. I don't think Papers needs the "art / indie" label to be appreciated.
    "Harry uses the One Ring to defeat Magneto and save the Rebellion!"
    With thanks to RaveTurned in comments on the main page.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    It's interesting to note that in almost every other medium it's the opposite to what you're suggesting - ie. films are judged first on story and characters, then on cinematography.
    On a popular level, you mean.

    There is a core level of experts for every medium that rates them based on, let's call it, technical excellence.

    Well, except for videogames.

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    On a popular level, you mean.

    There is a core level of experts for every medium that rates them based on, let's call it, technical excellence.

    Well, except for videogames.
    Except technical excellence is considered - it's in the game's engine and whether it has bugs or not, and to a lesser extent how well the mechanics work together. Everything else is entirely subjective - there's very little room for objectivity in a review since it is inherently someone's opinion.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    On a popular level, you mean.
    Not only on that level, obviously. Reviewers (I mean the good ones) tend to focus on analyzing a film thematically, trying to grasp what the film is "really" talking about (e.g.: "The World's End talks about the perils of nostalgia and immaturity under the guise of a sci-fi film, yadda-yadda"). Of course, they also write about cinematography and all the technical stuff, but usually connecting it to the "humanity" of the film. I think this is quite clear.

  10. #50
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    Well I'm applying through an agency at the moment (I normally never do this for many reasons), and I've just found out, "Papers Please" is depressing. Not because it's fictional, but because its real: https://www.gov.uk/check-an-employee...work-documents
    The downloadable PDF for real reference on that site is almost and exact replica of Papers Please. :(

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