Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    211

    [VS] Map of INI's defence setup

    So, Pella posted a picture of INI's current defence routine for SCU shield generator-style rooms. (source is https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...4#post-2084192 )

    http://i.imgur.com/Y0yXPqv.jpg

    It's the same one we met a little while back at Echo Valley, on Esamir. It's actually pretty interesting. 24-person layout, of which 4 are Medics, 7 are MAXes, while 13 are Engineers.

    The Medics hide out of sight, and the firepower presumably comes from Lockdown MAXes and AI turrets. They completely abandon the lower floor on the right, instead defending the stairs and the SCU-gen itself.

    The point room has two turrets set far back, with clear LOS to the bridges, while the MAXes make it difficult to get explosives at the Engies. And they don't seem to have dedicated Engies for the MAXes on the Little Stairs, instead preferring to have three spare Engies on the main stairs.

    The most striking part of this is the fact that they have so few Medics, yet so many Engineers. Consistently our greatest criticism of ourselves is our overuse of Engy, and we praise INI for use of Medics.

    I'm not suggesting that we start trying this kind of layout, since it's not our style exactly, but I think we can learn some things from the details. Maybe use AI turrets on doors more often, and keep Medics safe.

    Also, things are obviously different for VS, since we have ZOE instead of Lockdown, and we can use the Lasher to great effect for area denial. Any other thoughts on this?

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sweden (Göteborg)
    Posts
    2,874
    The idea of using AI turrets FAR BACK from doorways is interesting and certainly looks good. Also keeping everyone FAR BACK from doorways, ensuring free lines of fire at the doorways seems good. We should probably swap some MAXes and engies for Lashers (specifically for the splash, heavies without Lashers are less interesting than another MAX, for instance). We should probably play to our mobility a little bit more, but what we really need when defending is the discipline to not run all over the damn place like headless chicken. We had a very good defence of just one of these rooms (at Auraxicom Substation?) the other night. By constantly nagging people to stay away from doors and sticking to point defence covering different angles, we managed to hold those two rooms very well for fifteen minutes or so, with 2 squads, until the fight went somewhere else.

  3. #3
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    850
    If we take something from this, it's probably that we should start deploying the basic AI turrets at chokepoints and then support those engineers so that heavies can't peak long enough to get rockets through. Also, people picking their spots or areas and then remaining relatively static, so that doors and angles are covered sufficiently, is good.

    I do think that applying more tactics on the ground would often be very beneficial.

    Edit: good point, eso. having people stay away from the doors is something we can definitely improve upon.
    Last edited by qaz; 22-08-2013 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sweden (Göteborg)
    Posts
    2,874
    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    Also, people picking their spots or areas and then remaining relatively static, so that doors and angles are covered sufficiently, is good.
    While I agree with all your points, I just wanted to highlight what I think is the most important thing. Guarding that rear entrance (the "banana doors") might not be as much fun as guarding the stairs or the SCU, but it is a really important job, and it's important to have the patience not to peek out the door to see if anyone's coming. That will get you killed, sooner or later, requiring one of our precious medics to risk themselves to get you back up.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sweden (Göteborg)
    Posts
    2,874
    Also, applying tactics on a really small scale such as this can be a lot of fun!

  6. #6
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    654
    Yeah better have a light assault or two running around on the roofs if you want intel of enemy activities rather have someone trying to look out the door.

    Now how does one go around breaking this, seems like flashbangs/smoke grenades are gonna be extremely important.

  7. #7
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    Also, applying tactics on a really small scale such as this can be a lot of fun!
    It really is. It's a shame, though; one of my passions is military history, and I spend a lot of time studying infantry and armour tactics (from WW2 onward), but most of the rules and laws that apply in real life tend not to work in PS2 .

    Quote Originally Posted by Wardancer View Post
    Yeah better have a light assault or two running around on the roofs if you want intel of enemy activities rather have someone trying to look out the door.

    Now how does one go around breaking this, seems like flashbangs/smoke grenades are gonna be extremely important.
    Hm. My initial idea would be to hit the point room, since it's relatively lightly defended, but they'd have advance warning of us crossing the bridges. It might work, if we flash/concussion the point room and ZOE crash hard into that room, while simultaneously flashing/concing the stairs/main room. You don't need to necessarily rush in downstairs, just keep the MAXes concussed for long enough for our squads in the point room to close the distance and start killing.

  8. #8
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    850
    It's not easy to break this, unfortunately. INI troops won't be the only ones in there, and breaching via the two doors by the teleporter will result in a guaranteed complete wipe for everything up to a platoon thanks to UBGLs + maxes and explosives. The best way would possibly to breach via the other teleport and then leg it as fast as possible to the banana doors. We've done this before and had decent success with it. If that's not an option, sprinting around to the north and then to the entrance by the SCU might work as well, but there's lots of attrition. The door marked as 'ally door' can work as well if combined with extremely aggressive usage of concs, as most of the guys inside won't be able to fire on that door when conced.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Dominicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,001
    Interesting, looks to me as the top 2 AI turrets are mostly there to draw fire and to act as a way to lock the door down if the maxes go down. For us NC I see an oppertunity to get people over the banana bridge with the use of aegis shields, but thats not an option for VS.

    A cheap tactic might be to smoke the banana bridge. Rush in and die inside. Then a well placed revive grenade and you should be behind the locked down maxes. Focus on the medics and engineers behind the turrets.

    The tactic sounds solid of ini, but it all crumbles down if one thing happens. Randoms. They will stick to the door and try to peak around. I recon they accept a lot of friendly kills to keep it working. Somehow I think there must be a blind spot on the banana bridge.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,858
    I already try to do this when I SL.

    We can't ever be as spot-on as INI, but what we should try to be doing is a) staying the fuck out of the way of the doors and b) not moving much. Those positions only work if we hold them...

    I'd also contend that for RPS there are no where near enough medics in that layout.

    What we know alreeady is that holding buildings is very powerful. I almost always try and lead my squad inside a building if we are defending a location. But holding a room only works if two things are held to:

    I have two orders I repeat over and over when trying to hold a building:
    1) If you can see out of the doors and you are not a MAX or behind an AI turret shield you are in the wrong place.
    2) Stop moving about. Pick a door, aim at it and hold position.

    It works. But fuck me do you have to shout those orders over and over again sometimes...
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    654
    Yeah I have been part of max crashes that hit this kind of defense before and those AI turrets eat a lot of fire since any shots that strike the shields deal 0 damage. The banana doors are very very hard to get through because you have to run over the bridges while you get pelted by rockets from heavies and fracmaxes. But I think smoke, flash and concs are gonna be essential to break in. That and numbers, it really really comes down to numbers to break this. Unless you outnumber them its pretty pointless.

  12. #12
    Network Hub Henlaaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    324
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    1) If you can see out of the doors and you are not a MAX or behind an AI turret shield you are in the wrong place.
    2) Stop moving about. Pick a door, aim at it and hold position.
    And cover ALL the doors, too often there is a crush at one or two positions, then leaving another entrance either lightly or completely unguarded..

    works well when squads cover different levels
    Last edited by Henlaaz; 23-08-2013 at 03:30 PM.

  13. #13
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    62
    I've never seen RPS use any form of static defense in any building.. So perhaps we could start with that
    What I have seen is static defense around a single door however...

  14. #14
    Lesser Hivemind Node Cephas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    712
    I think it was Fishfood PL/SL-ing on a biolab defence recently but I found the AI turret amazing. Even when you're trying to breach into a room it puts down so much cover on a door it's unreal.

  15. #15
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    62
    Some more inspiration from INI:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1sK-uVq5xI

    When will we start pulling similar stunts?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •