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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Hotline Miami 2 rape scene controversy.

    Shockingly, there is a controversy on the internet. Cara previewed Hotline Miami 2 for Pc Gamer and was disturbed in a scene where the main character goes to rape a woman, though I believe the director of the show cuts before it is shown. Full link to article

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    I don't mind rape in videogame,i mean people were okey when you murder others in game but when it comes to sex,even if its against your will they start to bitch.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    I don't mind rape in videogame,i mean people were okey when you murder others in game but when it comes to sex,even if its against your will they start to bitch.
    Just to be VERY VERY clear, rape is not sex. At all.

    As for what's described Cara's reaction doesn't seem unfair, I would find it grubby and uncomfortable to play. But I can't really comment until I play it.

    I'm not sure Hotline Miami has the right sensibility to deal with rape all that well.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Just to be VERY VERY clear, rape is not sex. At all.

    As for what's described Cara's reaction doesn't seem unfair, I would find it grubby and uncomfortable to play. But I can't really comment until I play it.

    I'm not sure Hotline Miami has the right sensibility to deal with rape all that well.
    It is sex, by definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    I think it could bother people for many reasons, but the ones that come to my mind are:

    1) The male enemies in the game are far from defenseless. Frequent use of the 'R to restart' option is evidence that it's at least a fair fight. (insofar as being able to one-shot you)
    2) The woman doesn't fight back
    3) Control is taken away from the player and they are forced to do something they may not have agreed to

    As far as the violence part goes, I think the original game was pretty straight forward about portraying it as sickening.
    So if the female wasn't defenseless, but got raped anyway that is ok then? I don't understand you neo-feminist types.

  5. #5
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    So if the female wasn't defenseless, but got raped anyway that is ok then? I don't understand you neo-feminist types.
    Uh, no? I just happen to think that's part of why it bothers people. I don't like shooting cops in Payday 2, so I didn't buy it. I wouldn't like to rape a woman in a game, and a defenseless one makes it even worse.

    I'm also not a feminist, neo or otherwise. All of the 'women this, women that' video game talk here is something I generally stay away from. There's so much of it on the blog and forum that it seems like noise at this point.
    Last edited by deadly.by.design; 16-08-2013 at 04:47 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    people hopefully mind rape more than sex.

    I was at rezzed and saw people playing hotline. I think its poorly made, it depends on if it remains a thing that happens only once, because if it does, then itll detract from the game.
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    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  7. #7
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I still theorise that the end boss of hotline miami 2 will be someone you have to rape.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  8. #8
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    I thought rape was implied in the first game with the woman you carry out. That's why she says don't leave me. Then there was the brutally disemboweled woman on the floor of the extra level. Also the way you kill the samurai walking away from you.
    Last edited by Internet; 16-08-2013 at 04:14 PM.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    It's good that it disturbed her. Hotline Miami is a disturbing game, I can only image the second would be even more so.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  10. #10
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    Can people please make sure they read the original article before commenting please. Here are some things that Cara didn't write:

    1) That rape shouldn't be portrayed in games
    2) That rape shouldn't be portrayed in a Hotline Miami game
    3) That that rape scene, in that exact context, shouldn't have been in the game

    She merely described her own visceral, actual, emotional reaction to what she saw, and then dived into that unease to try and figure out the exact cause of it.

    You can't argue with that.

    You can't tell someone that they shouldn't or aren't allowed to feel however they feel. Because we can't control our feelings. We've all been in love with someone we don't want to be in love with. We've all wanted to punch someone in the face when we know we shouldn't.

    Sure, you can say her reaction isn't logical, but emotions are not logical.

    At no point did Cara say that the scene should not be in the game. That it should be censored. She just said she was uncomfortable with it, it made her upset, and so she won't play the game. It's probable other people will react in a similar way, it's up to the developers if they want to keep those people as players or not by changing it. But she certainly didn't ask them to.

    Some people don't watch the Saw films because they make them feel sick. We don't call them crazy hypocritcal nutters.
    Last edited by deano2099; 16-08-2013 at 06:11 PM.

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    and so she won't play the game.
    Actually, I don't believe Cara wrote that either in the article. While it certainly did give her pause, I don't think she was going to boycott the game because of it.

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    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winged Nazgul View Post
    Actually, I don't believe Cara wrote that either in the article. While it certainly did give her pause, I don't think she was going to boycott the game because of it.
    internet peoples. please understand that if you (one person) dont buy a game, that is not a boycott.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    internet peoples. please understand that if you (one person) dont buy a game, that is not a boycott.
    Even if it was, nobody is compelled to buy any game for any reason. Not buying a game is not 'censorship' and it doesn't violate someone's 'free speech'.

  14. #14
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    internet peoples. please understand that if you (one person) dont buy a game, that is not a boycott.
    Because English words only ever have one meaning, right?

  15. #15
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    I think it could bother people for many reasons, but the ones that come to my mind are:

    1) The male enemies in the game are far from defenseless. Frequent use of the 'R to restart' option is evidence that it's at least a fair fight. (insofar as being able to one-shot you)
    2) The woman doesn't fight back
    3) Control is taken away from the player and they are forced to do something they may not have agreed to

    As far as the violence part goes, I think the original game was pretty straight forward about portraying it as sickening.
    Last edited by deadly.by.design; 16-08-2013 at 04:18 PM.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Hotline Miami kind of straddled the line of - is this glorfying violence, or trying to say something about our violent tendencies. But at the end of the day, it was a well crafted murder sim with a great soundtrack, but not a great deal to say. For me the juxtaposition with the ultraviolence and the beat with the silence of the aftermath was well done, but the storyline and the secrets weren't.

    I think if you want to talk about rape in a game you kind of need to earn the right, with good writing and something to say (or perhaps a sensory overload type of thing which could be equally powerful without written word). But the way it's framed in HM2 sounds like its done as a shock tactic to make the game seem edgy, which doesn't sit well for me.
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  17. #17
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    You know, I am not keen on Hotline Miami - ultraviolence is just not my thing - so the chances of me ever wanting to play the sequel were slim to begin with. But chucking rape into the mix, for what is clearly just shock value, is somewhat different. Hotline Miami is a clearly stylised game, a top-down Tarantino movie with over-the-top, cathartically unrealistic violence and mayhem. And in all of this slaughter, a female character is singled out not just for brutal murder but for rape.

    Statistically, around 1 in 4 women will be raped during their lifetime. If you know four women, chances are quite good that at some stage one of them will be raped, probably by someone she knew and thought she could trust. It is a violent crime which overwhelmingly consists of male perpetrators and female victims, for which only a tiny minority ever see their day in court (never mind get justice), and for which the majority of those victims will overwhelmingly be told by society that it was, somehow, their fault.

    This isn't about prudishness. This is about violent sexual assault and violation being reduced to a punchline in a shock-value joke in a shock-value game. It is purile and disgusting and everyone who was involved with its production should feel thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    What if you know more then four women and not even one got raped :o ?!?!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    What if you know more then four women and not even one got raped :o ?!?!
    You might present an argument that lacked knowledge of how statistics and probability worked, I suppose.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    That 1 in 4 number is way off. I remember when that statistic came out (it was mid 1990's) and it was something involving college students, IIRC. It certainly wasn't 1 out of every 4 women on Earth.

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