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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Hotline Miami 2 rape scene controversy.

    Shockingly, there is a controversy on the internet. Cara previewed Hotline Miami 2 for Pc Gamer and was disturbed in a scene where the main character goes to rape a woman, though I believe the director of the show cuts before it is shown. Full link to article

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    I don't mind rape in videogame,i mean people were okey when you murder others in game but when it comes to sex,even if its against your will they start to bitch.

  3. #3
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    people hopefully mind rape more than sex.

    I was at rezzed and saw people playing hotline. I think its poorly made, it depends on if it remains a thing that happens only once, because if it does, then itll detract from the game.
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  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    I don't mind rape in videogame,i mean people were okey when you murder others in game but when it comes to sex,even if its against your will they start to bitch.
    Just to be VERY VERY clear, rape is not sex. At all.

    As for what's described Cara's reaction doesn't seem unfair, I would find it grubby and uncomfortable to play. But I can't really comment until I play it.

    I'm not sure Hotline Miami has the right sensibility to deal with rape all that well.

  5. #5
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I still theorise that the end boss of hotline miami 2 will be someone you have to rape.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  6. #6
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    I thought rape was implied in the first game with the woman you carry out. That's why she says don't leave me. Then there was the brutally disemboweled woman on the floor of the extra level. Also the way you kill the samurai walking away from you.
    Last edited by Internet; 16-08-2013 at 04:14 PM.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    It's good that it disturbed her. Hotline Miami is a disturbing game, I can only image the second would be even more so.
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  8. #8
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    I think it could bother people for many reasons, but the ones that come to my mind are:

    1) The male enemies in the game are far from defenseless. Frequent use of the 'R to restart' option is evidence that it's at least a fair fight. (insofar as being able to one-shot you)
    2) The woman doesn't fight back
    3) Control is taken away from the player and they are forced to do something they may not have agreed to

    As far as the violence part goes, I think the original game was pretty straight forward about portraying it as sickening.
    Last edited by deadly.by.design; 16-08-2013 at 04:18 PM.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Just to be VERY VERY clear, rape is not sex. At all.

    As for what's described Cara's reaction doesn't seem unfair, I would find it grubby and uncomfortable to play. But I can't really comment until I play it.

    I'm not sure Hotline Miami has the right sensibility to deal with rape all that well.
    It is sex, by definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    I think it could bother people for many reasons, but the ones that come to my mind are:

    1) The male enemies in the game are far from defenseless. Frequent use of the 'R to restart' option is evidence that it's at least a fair fight. (insofar as being able to one-shot you)
    2) The woman doesn't fight back
    3) Control is taken away from the player and they are forced to do something they may not have agreed to

    As far as the violence part goes, I think the original game was pretty straight forward about portraying it as sickening.
    So if the female wasn't defenseless, but got raped anyway that is ok then? I don't understand you neo-feminist types.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Hotline Miami kind of straddled the line of - is this glorfying violence, or trying to say something about our violent tendencies. But at the end of the day, it was a well crafted murder sim with a great soundtrack, but not a great deal to say. For me the juxtaposition with the ultraviolence and the beat with the silence of the aftermath was well done, but the storyline and the secrets weren't.

    I think if you want to talk about rape in a game you kind of need to earn the right, with good writing and something to say (or perhaps a sensory overload type of thing which could be equally powerful without written word). But the way it's framed in HM2 sounds like its done as a shock tactic to make the game seem edgy, which doesn't sit well for me.
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  11. #11
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    You know, I am not keen on Hotline Miami - ultraviolence is just not my thing - so the chances of me ever wanting to play the sequel were slim to begin with. But chucking rape into the mix, for what is clearly just shock value, is somewhat different. Hotline Miami is a clearly stylised game, a top-down Tarantino movie with over-the-top, cathartically unrealistic violence and mayhem. And in all of this slaughter, a female character is singled out not just for brutal murder but for rape.

    Statistically, around 1 in 4 women will be raped during their lifetime. If you know four women, chances are quite good that at some stage one of them will be raped, probably by someone she knew and thought she could trust. It is a violent crime which overwhelmingly consists of male perpetrators and female victims, for which only a tiny minority ever see their day in court (never mind get justice), and for which the majority of those victims will overwhelmingly be told by society that it was, somehow, their fault.

    This isn't about prudishness. This is about violent sexual assault and violation being reduced to a punchline in a shock-value joke in a shock-value game. It is purile and disgusting and everyone who was involved with its production should feel thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    What if you know more then four women and not even one got raped :o ?!?!

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    That 1 in 4 number is way off. I remember when that statistic came out (it was mid 1990's) and it was something involving college students, IIRC. It certainly wasn't 1 out of every 4 women on Earth.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    That 1 in 4 number is way off. I remember when that statistic came out (it was mid 1990's) and it was something involving college students, IIRC. It certainly wasn't 1 out of every 4 women on Earth.
    Are you arguing that if we took the rest of the world into account, including places where women are sold off at age 9 or forced to marry their rapists, that the numbers would go down?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    What if you know more then four women and not even one got raped :o ?!?!
    You might present an argument that lacked knowledge of how statistics and probability worked, I suppose.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    I'm not arguing anything, just saying that "1 in 4" thing is probably not accurate today. It certainly isn't accurate to say "If you know at least four women one of them has been raped."
    Not to say that rape is good or anything. It's bad and we shouldn't do it. Much like all of the other stuff in Hotline Miami.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Maybe its meant 1 in 4 in Africa,because you know,they get raped allot there.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus groovychainsaw's Avatar
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    The original for me was a simulator of someone with serious mental/drug issues. The hazy nature of the game, the 'voices', the music, the ultraviolence could have been imagined just as easily as real. It WAS disturbing, but I like to be challenged a little by games sometimes, and I'd much rather a game leaves me feeling disturbed about violence than celebratory (hello, COD). There was the implication of an abusive relationship in the first, but it wasn't explicit, so this sort of behaviour could be 'in character' for the lead role (assuming the sequel follows the same protagonist).

    HM2 would have to be careful how it approached the concept. In the wrong context it could come across as simply headline grabbing or cheap, but it could also be used to question the behaviour, or drive a complex plot. The creators have it in them, I think. I want games to be provocative, so I want to see games try to take on genuinely complex, mature themes. There will be failures (and this could well be one), but a game that actually articulates the complexity and pain associated with this act would be interesting. (Note, I'm not saying this is 'fun' or anything, much like films or literature that explore the concept, it will most likely be harrowing and disturbing).

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Top comment:

    'Hotline Miami is meant to underline how bizarre video game violence has gotten at this point. We dont need to think about it, we are given merely the shallowest pretence and thats enough for us to attempt to beat Stalin's high-score.

    The rape scene is a logical progression of that. Why, the game asks, are we okay with mass-murder but not okay with rape? Why is rape a special kind of evil? You had no problem with violence directed at those men back there, so why does your stomach turn when i make you do this? Its a strong statement. Its certainly not been included merely for shock value. And the fact it makes you stomach turn means essentially that its doing its job.'

  20. #20
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    To be fair the entire event is taken out of context.

    We haven't been able to play the scene in question or experience it within the context of the rest of the game's narrative and then make comment.

    But all I was getting from this is.... Cara don't like rape because its against a woman! Okay she was a tad more wordy than that but still.

    It seems she's okay with a power fantasy that involves torturing numerous males but a violent act against one woman even in the context of a game where you play killers for hire is deplorable.

    I guess she's of that feminist mindset that all sex is rape and all women are on a pedestal to the rest of the world.

    It's gonna be interesting to see how Cara and the feminists react when the new Call Of Duty is released.

    Last edited by Patrick Swayze; 16-08-2013 at 04:51 PM.

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