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  1. #21
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    So if the female wasn't defenseless, but got raped anyway that is ok then? I don't understand you neo-feminist types.
    Uh, no? I just happen to think that's part of why it bothers people. I don't like shooting cops in Payday 2, so I didn't buy it. I wouldn't like to rape a woman in a game, and a defenseless one makes it even worse.

    I'm also not a feminist, neo or otherwise. All of the 'women this, women that' video game talk here is something I generally stay away from. There's so much of it on the blog and forum that it seems like noise at this point.
    Last edited by deadly.by.design; 16-08-2013 at 04:47 PM.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    I'll look it up. There was a big story in the 90's about this. It was something like 1 in 4 US college females where sexually assaulted.

    ...and apparently it was from Mary Koss in 1985 for Ms. Magazine. Although it seems that either many are hanging on to those numbers or newer studies show similar numbers. What the 1 in 4 represents is always different- domestic abuse, rape, verbal abuse, etc.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    I guess she's of that feminist mindset that all sex is rape.
    Head = exploded.

    How did you make that connection?

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Maybe its meant 1 in 4 in Africa,because you know,they get raped allot there.
    65,000 *recorded* instances a year in South Africa
    Last edited by sonson; 16-08-2013 at 04:54 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    That 1 in 4 number is way off. I remember when that statistic came out (it was mid 1990's) and it was something involving college students, IIRC. It certainly wasn't 1 out of every 4 women on Earth.
    1 in 4 was the number I had stuck in my head. I did some digging, and the number in the US seems to be 1 in 6 which is still high enough to be sickened by. In the UK, that number is 1 in 5. Either way, my point stands. Rape is extremely common. Yes, even in so-called civilised countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Maybe its meant 1 in 4 in Africa,because you know,they get raped allot there.
    Nice racism you got going there.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    What the heck men,how is that racist ??! These days everything is racist for people,its like you droped on your head.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Now I do hold the belief that many rapes are not reported. I'm sure there's a lot more rape than any of us is comfortable with, but statistics aren't recent or accurate. 1 in 4 women make up 25% of the total population of women, and that's about as far as I'll go with statistics.

    The truth here is that rape is controversial (for some reason) and it grabs headlines and press for HM2 to feature rape.

  8. #28
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    its probably more like 3/4ers of all african women.

    also patrick, youre a tit. theres no such thing as The Feminists.

    I have seen the game in question (as I said on page one) and its just in poor taste, and poorly made too. the director popping up is such a cheap trick, waay too late. (cheap in its usage in this case, not in general)
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Hmm.

    This whole series makes me queasy. I don’t think it’s dangerous or anything nor do I judge those who play it, I just know personally that I don’t like to dwell on the stuff in it so I stay out of it or playing stuff like this. Which makes it easy for me to say “I don’t feel so comfortable with that” on all fronts.

    However for someone who is fine with playing the series, I have to say, even as a feminist, that I think it’s hard to say you have a problem with the implied act of Rape without logically compromising the presumed indifference to the actual many Murders you repeatedly commit. Because you surely have to explain how the former is meaningful but the latter meaningless. Or explain how Rape is worse than Murder.

    Forgive me if I’m missing something here but I can’t see a way out of that paradox.

  10. #30
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    There isnt generally a problem with displaying rape in games. even if the main character is the one doing it, but it depends on what you do with that.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  11. #31
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    It reminds me of story about christian guy who bought Bioshock: Infinite and wanted to get refund, because game was forcing his character to accept baptism. Of course playing game where your character will kill like entire police force of huge city is nothing at all, but a game where you must accept baptism? Hell no. It's against my beliefs.

    So. Fucking. Stupid.

  12. #32
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    So a game where instead of "normal" violence, you use sexual violence is the same as someone having to be baptised? not... quite... seeing it.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    its probably more like 3/4ers of all african women.

    also patrick, youre a tit. theres no such thing as The Feminists.

    I have seen the game in question (as I said on page one) and its just in poor taste, and poorly made too. the director popping up is such a cheap trick, waay too late. (cheap in its usage in this case, not in general)
    You're wrong. Hotline Miami was a phenomenal game.

    Few games manage such a frantic pace of play, stylized visuals, easy to learn tough master difficulty, awesome sound design and a bunch of other things I cba to list then add on a highly experimental (for videogames) story on top.

    Explain to me how the director popping up is a cheap trick. Tons of media use similar devices.

    Peoples only argument only seems to be because its against women.

    Rape is fucking horrible. I've had first hand experience in dealing with rape survivors. I've seen it all from the devastating effect it can have on a personality and a life to the ultimate outcome of unwanted pregnancies and late term abortions.

    But why Rape should be this untouchable thing that isn't suitable for video games but while mass murder and torture are just gosh diddly darn fine is fucking beyond me.

    To start saying what people can and can't put in their art is fucking despicable.

    It's censorship.
    Last edited by Patrick Swayze; 16-08-2013 at 05:05 PM.

  14. #34
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    can you PLEASE read up and not just my one post (of many)?

    So the game lets you shoot shoot shoot, then comes the scene with the girl where you lose all control, the director says his line "MORE EMOTION YOU", then comes continues the shooting.

    What the hell does that scene have to do with it at all? Seriously. Either theyll emphasise on it, and do something with it, and if they dont, then its a cheap trick that added nothing, nothing to the game.
    Last edited by QuantaCat; 16-08-2013 at 05:16 PM.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  15. #35
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    So a game where instead of "normal" violence, you use sexual violence is the same as someone having to be baptised? not... quite... seeing it.
    No, I just want to point out that if you can stand watching and playing as murderer, in case of HM - very fucking violent murderer who leaves bodies, blood, guts and brains leaking from smashed skulls behind him, you shouldn't be offended with rape or accepting baptism.
    Both killing and rape is horrible, so why you're only offended with one of these things? You take it all or none.
    And remember - Hotline Miami is fucking gruesome violent game - it's well known fact. If you're offended with violence - do not play it. It's simple.

    To start saying what people can and can't put in their art is fucking despicable.
    This x100000.

  16. #36
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    you dont take all or none, thats retarded. That's like saying if you kill your own or loved ones rapist thats the same as raping your rapist.

    Quite a distinction.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  17. #37
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    To be fair, torture is normally considered a no go by most publishing studios too. Hotline Miami seemed pretty intent to establish that these were all terrible people, and all the violence and ugliness is the friction of terrible people interacting. I understand rape in that context as a form of ugliness (but in reality is not as bad/ugly/wrong as the violence already depicted in Hotline Miami).

    I'm not underestimating the gravity of rape. I just think it's not worse in reality that this:

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    Top comment:

    'Hotline Miami is meant to underline how bizarre video game violence has gotten at this point. We dont need to think about it, we are given merely the shallowest pretence and thats enough for us to attempt to beat Stalin's high-score.

    The rape scene is a logical progression of that. Why, the game asks, are we okay with mass-murder but not okay with rape? Why is rape a special kind of evil? You had no problem with violence directed at those men back there, so why does your stomach turn when i make you do this? Its a strong statement. Its certainly not been included merely for shock value. And the fact it makes you stomach turn means essentially that its doing its job.'
    This, all of this, more of this, then a little more of this.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

    Steam ID

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    The thing with death and killing in Hotline Miami is the killing can be explained. These people would kill you if you didn't fire first, although the extent of the violence is extreme. This rape scene is not something that is "him or me" this is a wounded woman, who is then raped afterwards. It's not really an action that you can say the woman would have done to the main character.
    steam: sketch

  20. #40
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    you dont take all or none, thats retarded. That's like saying if you kill your own or loved ones rapist thats the same as raping your rapist.
    What? Maybe it's my limited knowledge of English language, but this sentence is gibberish for me.
    Also I wanted to say that either you're offended with BOTH murder and rape or not offended with them at all (at least in fictional works).

    The thing with death and killing in Hotline Miami is the killing can be explained. These people would kill you if you didn't fire first, although the extent of the violence is extreme.
    YOU are the one who shoot them first. Why are you even here? To kill them all of course. Why? Because some fucking voice in telephone said so. All your victims are just defending ourselves. You could just stay at home. But no, you're killing. You're murderer and you will feel awesome with that. That's why your character is raping this woman. He's fucking psychopath.
    Last edited by GameCat; 16-08-2013 at 05:31 PM.

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