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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch View Post
    The thing with death and killing in Hotline Miami is the killing can be explained. These people would kill you if you didn't fire first, although the extent of the violence is extreme.
    Except in all cases in Hotline Miami, you enter into their property and attack them first.

    Also again, telephone company, there's loads of innocents in there that wont attack you but you have to slice up anyway.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  2. #42
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    no matter how you turn it around, there is a huge difference between sexual violence and plain ole violence. you dont take both for the price of one.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  3. #43
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    What if the scene the rape of a man? You would not get the same reaction. Probably some juvenile jokes about prison, soap and Oz. It is not as common of a problem but by no means any less significant. But its treated as such.

    Women who rape men usually gets the reaction "What a lucky dude". Along with not having to worry about pregnancy and being less susceptible to other problems.

    That is part of the problem.

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Here's a question for anyone who was going to buy it.

    Is this now going to stop you buying it?

    I'm still going to get it because HM was a great game and I'm looking forward to playing the second one and seeing how it pans out.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  5. #45
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    actually, it isnt. the problem is that they dont address it in the short preview, and its unknown yet if they will in the full game. that is the real deal here.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    I guess she's of that feminist mindset that all sex is rape and all women are on a pedestal to the rest of the world.
    Punch yourself in the dick.

    For me.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Here's a question for anyone who was going to buy it.

    Is this now going to stop you buying it?
    Absolutely.

    Finishing up the tutorial, I’m certain that I’m playing more of the game I like – no – love. I’ve wiped the place of guys, watched them crawl around hopelessly in their own guts. I get to the final room. There’s a girl that it seems germane to hit like the other dudes. ‘FINISH HER’, the game says: I feel conflicted, but it’ll be over soon. I stroll up to finish the job. Instead, the control is taken from me by the game, and my character, the Pig Butcher, pins her down and drops his trousers.
    Abso-fucking-lutely. And I regret giving these assholes any of my money for the first one.

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    You people are way to sensitive.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Punch yourself in the dick.

    For me.
    Go pray to your great god Obama, eunuch

  10. #50
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    Can people please make sure they read the original article before commenting please. Here are some things that Cara didn't write:

    1) That rape shouldn't be portrayed in games
    2) That rape shouldn't be portrayed in a Hotline Miami game
    3) That that rape scene, in that exact context, shouldn't have been in the game

    She merely described her own visceral, actual, emotional reaction to what she saw, and then dived into that unease to try and figure out the exact cause of it.

    You can't argue with that.

    You can't tell someone that they shouldn't or aren't allowed to feel however they feel. Because we can't control our feelings. We've all been in love with someone we don't want to be in love with. We've all wanted to punch someone in the face when we know we shouldn't.

    Sure, you can say her reaction isn't logical, but emotions are not logical.

    At no point did Cara say that the scene should not be in the game. That it should be censored. She just said she was uncomfortable with it, it made her upset, and so she won't play the game. It's probable other people will react in a similar way, it's up to the developers if they want to keep those people as players or not by changing it. But she certainly didn't ask them to.

    Some people don't watch the Saw films because they make them feel sick. We don't call them crazy hypocritcal nutters.
    Last edited by deano2099; 16-08-2013 at 06:11 PM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    You people are way to sensitive.
    Every single thread on feminism on this site has hordes of shrill, hysterical, offended guys keening about how there isn't a problem at all and please everyone shut up because you're ruuuuuuuiining the site for everyone!

    I do not think playing the 'you guys are too sensitive' card is a winner.

  12. #52
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    Some more specific responses:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    It's good that it disturbed her. Hotline Miami is a disturbing game, I can only image the second would be even more so.
    If that was the intent of the game, then fair enough. But I don't think the intention was to disturb people in that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    But all I was getting from this is.... Cara don't like rape because its against a woman! Okay she was a tad more wordy than that but still.
    Essentially: yes. And? People identify with different things for different reasons.

    If your Dad is ill and you watch a film that features a character dealing with his father's death, you'll probably identify with that character. It'll make it a difficult watch. You might even turn it off. That's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    Forgive me if I’m missing something here but I can’t see a way out of that paradox.
    Emotions are not logical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post

    To start saying what people can and can't put in their art is fucking despicable.

    It's censorship.
    And no-one is doing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameCat View Post
    Both killing and rape is horrible, so why you're only offended with one of these things? You take it all or none.
    You're smart enough to get that offense is something that's taken, not something that you choose. So you should be able to see why someone can react one way to one thing and one way to another.

    Girls with skinny waists, perfect features and big boobs are hot. Guys with muscley chests and tight biceps and huge schlongs are hot. And yet I'm only attracted to the one group. Why? That's not logical surely?



    Quote Originally Posted by applecup View Post
    Statistically, around 1 in 4 women will be raped during their lifetime. If you know four women, chances are quite good that at some stage one of them will be raped, probably by someone she knew and thought she could trust. It is a violent crime which overwhelmingly consists of male perpetrators and female victims, for which only a tiny minority ever see their day in court (never mind get justice), and for which the majority of those victims will overwhelmingly be told by society that it was, somehow, their fault.

    This isn't about prudishness. This is about violent sexual assault and violation being reduced to a punchline in a shock-value joke in a shock-value game. It is purile and disgusting and everyone who was involved with its production should feel thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
    I don't even know about that. The depressing thing is that your 1 in 4 statistic is correct, so rape shouldn't have shock value at all. It happens all the time. If games actually reflected the real world, they'd have a lot more rape in them. So I don't think it's something to be avoided. But you really, really, really, don't get to angry if you put it in a game and then people get upset. Of course they will. Because it's an experience many have had.
    Last edited by deano2099; 16-08-2013 at 06:10 PM.

  13. #53
    Some strange reactions here. Cara's article seems very clear and thoughtful to me, and it deals with the dilemma of "Why might it seem OK to play at murdering thousands of pixel people, but a suggestion of sexual violence is upsetting?". So why have some posters reacted as if the article is calling for censorship? It quite clearly isn't. It's perfectly possible to express distaste and anger about something, even opine that the scene shouldn't have been included, without saying that the makers should have been forcibly prevented from doing so.

  14. #54
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    You're smart enough to get that offense is something that's taken, not something that you choose. So you should be able to see why someone can react one way to one thing and one way to another.
    Sorry, I can sometimes make stupid mistakes as English isn't my first language.
    I just can't imagine that someone can be OK with murder and not OK with rape and vice versa. Even if we're talking only about a game and not real world situation.

    Here's a question for anyone who was going to buy it.

    Is this now going to stop you buying it?
    I will buy it (probably in bundle like first one) because Hotline Miami 1 is good game and I like it, so sequel should be good too.

  15. #55
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    So I'm thinking about it, and here's my thoughts.

    People who are a bit repulsed by this are in no way singling out rape as uniquely objectionable. I say this because, thinking back to when MW2 came out, a lot of people were uncomfortable with that, too - which is just mass slaughter, same as the mass slaughter you commit in basically every videogame. And I think there's 2 common threads which make it different.

    1: every 'combatant' in videogames usually is a bit of a shitmerchant. Even in hotline miami when you break in and wreck peoples shit pre-emptively, they still try and kill you on sight, they by and large say nothing, and the environmental detail reeks of 'bad guy'. Drug dens, people traffickers, etc. The rape, like the no russian level in MW2, is just.... gratuitous murder of people who cannot fight back for shock value.

    2: Rape and mass shootings actually happen. HM2 is absurd. Even pseudo-realistic tacticool games are absurd. The firefights are frenetic, yes, but they're not terrifying, harrowing places to be like actual places, they're abstractions FAR removed from what it might be like. no russian and the HM2 rape are still videogames, but they are less removed from reality, because both these things happen. Scaling mount taliban and killing 500 terrorist soldiers whilst your squad oorahs and shitfucks their way merrily along like a band of stone cold operatives is a distant fiction. For example, take the rape scene from HM2 and replace it with a scenario where your guy has to massacre a cinema theatre, or conduct a school shooting. People would be just as repelled because it is not the rape specifically, but because events like this happen and they're actually gross.

  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Except in all cases in Hotline Miami, you enter into their property and attack them first.

    Also again, telephone company, there's loads of innocents in there that wont attack you but you have to slice up anyway.
    Well yeah, but then how many games does that happen in? Think of GTA, where you got to an apartment block to kill someone. That sort of thing isn't exclusive to Hotline Miami, and the majority of them will fight back.

    Here is a video of the scene, for anyone who wants to see it. Skip to about 1 minute in.



    As someone mentioned earlier, if you're going to comment on a subject matter, it should be well played out and makes the point it's trying to make well. This, to me, doesn't do that.
    steam: sketch

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    Go pray to your great god Obama, eunuch
    Please, say something stupid again.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  18. #58
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    and so she won't play the game.
    Actually, I don't believe Cara wrote that either in the article. While it certainly did give her pause, I don't think she was going to boycott the game because of it.

  19. #59
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winged Nazgul View Post
    Actually, I don't believe Cara wrote that either in the article. While it certainly did give her pause, I don't think she was going to boycott the game because of it.
    internet peoples. please understand that if you (one person) dont buy a game, that is not a boycott.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    Go pray to your great god Obama, eunuch
    Is this the nonsequitur game?

    Go fish for another banana, pal!

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