Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 207
  1. #81
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY f'n C
    Posts
    10,000
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    I mean, nothing as bad as that ludicrous scenario outlined back there, but we still do it and we all have our reasons.
    Ignorance, mostly.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  2. #82
    Network Hub Jeremy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    174
    Thought experiments counts for very little at any rate, because theoretical behavior has no real bearing on actual behavior.

  3. #83
    Activated Node InnerPartisan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    An artist makes a deliberately provocative game to get an emotional response.

    Cara gives an emotional response.

    Incredibly insecure and strange people interpret this as a feminazi attempt to censor said art.

    Look, I haven't seen or played the game. The first one was interesting and I respect the creators enough to trust them and check this out for myself. If it turns out that it's a clumsy and immature attempt to shoehorn a statement about rape or our attitudes, I'm sure I'll have an opinion. But to make my mind up on principle based on an article or two? No. Let's not get outraged ahead of time here. It's this sort of kneejerk shit that gave Gaspar Noe a career.
    Uhm. I basically agree with everything you wrote - but would you think less of me when I admit that I actually like Irréversible? (In the same way that I "like" comparable movies movies like Requiem for a Dream or Antichrist)

    And I guess that's relevant to the discussion - IMHO rape is a legitimate subject in media/entertainment/art, as long as it's handled well. And I would like to argue that even in shocking/exploitative contexts it can work (I mean, I'm not sure that I would call the original I Spit On Your Grave a good movie - but it sure as hell is effective).

    Despite what a lot of people say, the original Hotline Miami wasn't exactly deep - it was clever, yes, but it didn't have anything meaningful to say besides the by now cliched "Hey, are you sure that what you're doing is really all that great?"-trope.
    Yet, it still was effective, in the same way a good exploitation movie is effective, such as HM's obvious cinematic inspiration, Drive (which is totally an exploitation movie. Shut up!).

    So yeah, let's wait and see what the context is.
    There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!

  4. #84
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,850
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    Every day, people do shitty things and use either their survival or nobility or love to justify it. Almost anything you buy in the first world has negative ramifications for someone in the third world so in a sense we're all doing shitty things to ensure our survival or (mostly) just for luxury. I mean, nothing as bad as that ludicrous scenario outlined back there, but we still do it and we all have our reasons.
    For my own part, I'm a student of relativity. I try to be responsible and aware of the consequences of what I do, but fundamentally buying a laptop computer isn't the same as polluting China. My contribution to pollution through many of the things I consume is much more incremental than their effect on my life. Owning a computer has a huge impact on my life. There are certain things I consider big enough that relativity demands a different scale of assessment with new rules. How I think about whether or not it's ok for one person to be dead in front of me quite simply doesn't apply to how I think about the end of human-kind or the end of life. Or for that matter to war, genocide and political oppression. There are points of connection between the levels of scale, reasons I'll consider an issue with reference across these levels, but I haven't sussed them all out. They are incomplete. I do not have a "theory of everything" yet and never will.

    I'm not going to live an ascetic life to avoid harms I find undue or unjust any more than I'm going to stop eating meat because I care for the creatures of this earth, though I get why people make those decisions. Harm is a part of life; bad things happen. I have to balance my own happiness and my own fulfillment with that of others, but I don't have to push towards the best of all possible worlds--partially because I don't feel I could even decide what that would look like but partially because I don't think that sort of absolute idealism is important. I'm happy moving more generally upward, seeking improvement without seeking perfection--the two can look very similar and sound very similar but they are fundamentally different.

    Finally, I am somewhat spiritual. I do believe in purpose. But I, like many people, live in a dual world where purpose is arbitrary construction and where purpose gives spiritual meaning. I recognize the insignificance of human meaning in the grand scheme even as I decide it is important. I embrace both confidence and uncertainty. I accept that even those things most precious to me--free will, consciousness, love--are most likely illusory. But I nevertheless embrace the visceral nature of those illusions and accept them as a form of reality. My actions might have negative ramifications for others and I'm not always ok with that, but I keep moving, keep living, and enjoy myself becasue I am not wholly a creature of cause and effect. It's far more complicated than that, and even if that's just a lie I tell myself to be happy? Well, I won't say there's nothing I can do to change that but on some level the lie is being told and I am happy enough sometimes not to change that.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 16-08-2013 at 08:41 PM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardust’s Music Sounds Better With You. There’s lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context that’s cheating -bull0

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Conversely, why hold on to the moral standards of society when the fate of the species is at hand? You'd rather the human race go extinct than violate your moral code?
    I would rather we went extinct than have to live in a awful society where stuff like rape is acceptable. What would be the point of surviving if existence is miserable? Especially now we know that life is itself just an accident that has no real purpose (as far as we can tell) what is the point of keeping it alive to just to suffer.

  6. #86
    [QUOTE=jaguar skills;346692 With that said, why does anyone do anything then?

    .[/QUOTE]

    Because you are biologically programmed to. The programming has been fine tuned through evolution. A process that doesn't need any purpose. It is just a product of the laws of nature which really don't pay any special interest to human beings. That does not mean that you can't find your own purpose to life, just that you have to understand that that purpose is artificial and is formed from your human perception of reality. Thinking that there is some kind of human like God or some special magic purpose to it all is just a deletion and has no evidence to back it up. Everything pionts to the completly neutral and uncaring view of the universe.

    I think the point you made is what a lot of theists/super natural spiritualists/whatever get confused as to how an atheist manages to do anything.

  7. #87
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,623
    I should probably point out that I'm an atheist with an infantile philosophy bordering on nihilism, I was just interested to go further down Serenegooses particular rabbit hole and compare notes. Any views I hold that look spiritual or even remotely non-rational/empirical are purely coincidental.

    Anyway, looking forward to stoving dudes heads over and over again with a baseball bat and then being kind of appalled by a rape scene for five seconds! Who's with me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I think what Kanye West is going to mean is something similar to what Steve Jobs means. I am undoubtedly, you know, Steve of Internet, downtown, fashion, culture. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I am God's vessel. But my greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live.



  8. #88
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,154
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    Right, if you had to, would you shag Jimmy Saviles corpse up the bum or suck off Gary Glitter whilst dressed in a onesie with a dummy in your mouth?

    Oh sorry, I thought we were playing the needlessly vulgar hypothetical game again.
    Yeah, I mean people die all the time for "the greater good", like soldiers in war. You wouldn't suck a dick to save the universe? It's not that big of a deal.
    Last edited by Hypernetic; 16-08-2013 at 09:16 PM.

  9. #89
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,623
    Quote Originally Posted by InnerPartisan View Post
    Uhm. I basically agree with everything you wrote - but would you think less of me when I admit that I actually like Irréversible? (In the same way that I "like" comparable movies movies like Requiem for a Dream or Antichrist)
    Oh I'm a big fan of confrontational art, but I'd never go out of my way to defend people like Noe, Winding Refn or Trier. I feel like they'd be disappointed if I bothered, in fact.

    I haven't seen Only God Forgives, but all the reasons people give for hating it (every shot being just-so, excessive violence, style over substance, no characters) just make me look forward to it more. I will always indulge myself and pop the wank hat on, and so long as I have the self-awareness to realise what a dork I am I will never feel guilty for it either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I think what Kanye West is going to mean is something similar to what Steve Jobs means. I am undoubtedly, you know, Steve of Internet, downtown, fashion, culture. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I am God's vessel. But my greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live.



  10. #90
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,077
    Why can't a game depict rape? Other mediums do it all the time. As long as it isn't actively promoting rape as an awesome and totally acceptable thing to do, like with a "Drop the roofies in the right drink" or "How far can you go without waking her up!?!?" mini game, who cares? Are we worried that people are going to play this game and then immediately go out and rape someone?
    "What were we talking about? Pegasuses, pegasii, that's horses with wings. This motherf*cker got a sword that talks to him. Motherf*cker live in places that don't exist, it comes with a map. My God."

  11. #91
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,623
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Yeah, I mean people die all the time for "the greater good", like soldiers in war. You wouldn't suck a dick to save the universe? It's not that big of a deal.
    Sorry to have to explain this, but the difference between a soldier dying in a war and me sucking off Gary Glitter to save the universe is the latter is never going to happen. The former happens all the time.

    I made the Gary Glitter point to show how ludicrous your hypothetical was, but instead of moving on you went right ahead and popped his glam-rocking, child-molesting cock in your mouth like a champ.

    To save the universe.

    Think of that!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I think what Kanye West is going to mean is something similar to what Steve Jobs means. I am undoubtedly, you know, Steve of Internet, downtown, fashion, culture. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I am God's vessel. But my greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live.



  12. #92
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,623
    Quote Originally Posted by db1331 View Post
    Why can't a game depict rape? Other mediums do it all the time. As long as it isn't actively promoting rape as an awesome and totally acceptable thing to do, like with a "Drop the roofies in the right drink" or "How far can you go without waking her up!?!?" mini game, who cares? Are we worried that people are going to play this game and then immediately go out and rape someone?
    I think you're confusing saying something is poorly done, in bad taste and with little artistic merit with deciding it cannot and should not be done. It is possible to think that the Smurfs 2 is a shitty idea without saying it should be banned.

    Personally, I don't think games should really go anywhere near rape until they get the hang of consensual love and sex. The tripe in Mass Effect and Dragon Age shows that we're a long way from that happening. That said, people are more than welcome to try so long as they don't mind people slagging it off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I think what Kanye West is going to mean is something similar to what Steve Jobs means. I am undoubtedly, you know, Steve of Internet, downtown, fashion, culture. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanye West
    I am God's vessel. But my greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live.



  13. #93
    Network Hub Jeremy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    174
    I don't think anyone is saying that games can't depict rape, but there would certainly be some reasonable questions brought about if a game happened to glorify it. I'm not saying this game has done that, and the article doesn't either, but we also maintain the right to critique a piece of art that discusses a topic in a sloppy or senseless fashion. Cara expressed her emotional reaction to the scene, and even brought up the question of why it's okay to clear a room by violently bashing in skulls, then recoil in horror at a rape scene. As for the "who cares?" comment.. I think I would say everyone should care at some level, and not in an effort to prohibit freedom of expression, but as thinking people who are responding to art/media/games. If someone made a game about "how far can I get before she wakes up" I would feel very justified in thinking the person who made that is a shallow skeever who deals in shock to elicit a response, rather than attempting to have a serious discussion about the topic.

  14. #94
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,850
    Quote Originally Posted by db1331 View Post
    Why can't a game depict rape? Other mediums do it all the time. As long as it isn't actively promoting rape as an awesome and totally acceptable thing to do, like with a "Drop the roofies in the right drink" or "How far can you go without waking her up!?!?" mini game, who cares? Are we worried that people are going to play this game and then immediately go out and rape someone?
    I don't care in that I'm going to prevent it from happening. I care in that everything we create says something. What is the game saying? Have fun because this is absurd and crazy and you can't do this at home?

    It's the question that comes up with humor about sexual violence. Is the joke funny because of the context, the setup, the delivery, what-have you or becasue that guy said something about rape and that's inherently funny? Or is it funny because it's really "hahaha, women" or "hahaha feminism is stupid?"

    Games can tackle whatever subjects they want. I reserve the right to judge them for it and I expect them to conform to my standards if I'm going to appreciate them. If they meet certain other standards, I'm going to call them out and lump them in with other media I consider representative of a social problem, or contributing to it. You yourself added such a standard in your own post that you except depictions of rape in games to conform to, yes?
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardust’s Music Sounds Better With You. There’s lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context that’s cheating -bull0

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    Anyway, looking forward to stoving dudes heads over and over again with a baseball bat and then being kind of appalled by a rape scene for five seconds! Who's with me?
    Here here!

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Yeah, I mean people die all the time for "the greater good", like soldiers in war. You wouldn't suck a dick to save the universe? It's not that big of a deal.
    No but your rape argument kind of means that a huge portion of society is going to be exploited and their life will be misery for the benefit of another portion.

    Why does that sound familiar?

    I also disagree with your "greater good"

    Most wars are about brainwashing the plebs to fight and lay down thier lives to protect the privilege and prejudices of those lording over them.


    (I really need to stop double posting, sorry)

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    hang of consensual love and sex. The tripe in Mass Effect and Dragon Age shows that we're a long way from that happening. That said, people are more than welcome to try so long as they don't mind people slagging it off.
    How about The Witcher 2?

    However tasteful/not tasteful you think it is you have to agree it is on par with a lot of TV shows/movies.

    Fucking hell! I was supposed to edit this into the above post :(

  18. #98
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Bishopric of Utrecht
    Posts
    2,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Scenario: A strange virus makes most women infertile and the remaining fertile women, for some unknown reason decide they don't want to reproduce either. In order to save the entire species, you must rape.

    Seems justifiable to me. They'd probably build you a monument after.
    I find it extremely disturbing that you went out of your way to bring an excuse, a very outlandish excuse, for rape. Then again, I probably understand a lot better why women in your scenario wouldn't want to reproduce. I know I wouldn't want to if that was the general mindset.

  19. #99
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,154
    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    Sorry to have to explain this, but the difference between a soldier dying in a war and me sucking off Gary Glitter to save the universe is the latter is never going to happen.
    It's this kind of closed-mindedness that plagues our society. It's extremely plausible that an alien race could show up to Earth and demand blowjobs or they will destroy the planet.

  20. #100
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY f'n C
    Posts
    10,000
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    It's this kind of closed-mindedness that plagues our society. It's extremely plausible that an alien race could show up to Earth and demand blowjobs or they will destroy the planet.
    Soon to be depicted in a sober, unwavering documentary known as Saints Row 4.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •