Results 161 to 180 of 207
19-08-2013, 04:28 AM #161
You say fictional violence towards a disadvantaged population shouldn't be treated with more care than generalized violence? Well, I never thought of it that way, but it makes so much sense!
Rape is more off-limits than murder in media but it's more common than murder in actuality. Perhaps there's a relationship between rape's ubiquity and its place in the zeitgeist? There is academic speculation about this. I feel like writing about that, but probably not here.
I guess HLM2 (as with HLM) is trashy content with solid mechanics. The rape bit can be seen as overt provocation and/or a naive mistake. In any case it's also trashy, which at least evinces consistency of tonal indifference. Having watched the scene and given HLM's tone I don't personally think the rape is out of place; it's as tasteless as the rest of it.
Some clowns seem to object to the preview as if she "doesn't get it" but from what I can tell she explicitly experienced the "why is this worse than murder?" feeling and she simply felt the presentation was an overstep because of incongruent mechanics (the loss of agency in that specific event) combined with an overdone trope.
Also, she explicitly said her self-identification as a woman influenced her reaction (i.e. being of the sex which is most frequently raped was said to have had something to do with her response to a portrayal of a female being raped).
Mostly-male libertarians not grokking how/why a woman may react differently? Jesus fucking cluggula.
Grab yer bug-out bag, Hypernetic! I jus'red th'innernet, annit'sed'der femmernatsees evvarwhar!
19-08-2013, 04:59 AM #162Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
19-08-2013, 05:37 AM #163
19-08-2013, 06:58 AM #164
Here's what was written:
"I get to the final room. There’s a girl that it seems germane to hit like the other dudes. ‘FINISH HER’, the game says: I feel conflicted, but it’ll be over soon. I stroll up to finish the job. Instead, the control is taken from me by the game, and my character, the Pig Butcher, pins her down and drops his trousers."
"I have been forced to identify with the one person the game has given no agency. My agency has been removed not only from Pig Butcher, but agency was never given to the woman I now identify with – not even AI."
I took that to mean that agency in Pig Butcher's context was, to directly reference the aforementioned dictionary, "the capacity to kill people". Further, said agency was changed without warning into "the capacity to rape a wounded victim".
She expected Pig Butcher to kill the wounded victim as he had killed all the others but that's not what happened, hence her feeling "betrayed by something she loves" (i.e. a straightforward murder sim randomly became a rape sim).
Agency in the victim's context was contrasted against the AIs. The victim could be shot and raped, and those are things done to, not by her, whereas the other in-game targets had "the capacity to move about, attack, and exposit dialog".
It might make more sense to say the mechanics were unexpectedly altered from kill to rape, but that's a useless semantic non-distinction insofar as the preview is concerned (I would be tempted to call it chicanery but I don't think you've malicious intent).
In either the agency or the mechanics sense the rape was incongruous, but it was not tonally so unless you want to go down the infinite rabbit hole of comparing the severity of rape and murder (they both seem pretty horrible to me). The rape portrayal I watched in the Rezzed video was as callously-indifferent as every other portrayal of violence in the game.
19-08-2013, 07:46 AM #165
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19-08-2013, 08:02 AM #166
You might as well argue that the ability to brutally execute incapacitated enemies removes agency (particularly in the parts where it locks you into sequences involving particularly violent finishing moves) for all the difference it makes. Again none of this has any impact on what Cara says or thinks and doesn't make anything she says wrong or somehow less valid - it's her impressions of the game and what she feels about it, and that's fine. I don't even necessarily agree with the inclusion of it in the game myself. But some of the arguments about "agency" are ridiculous and stretching the context into artificial compartments to try to support a viewpoint which doesn't really need justification anyway.
Also "murder sim/rape sim?" Hyperbole does nobody any favours. EDIT: Particularly when the graphics are somewhat abstracted as in HLM. Christ, Manhunt doesn't even classify as a 'murder sim'.
Last edited by soldant; 19-08-2013 at 08:03 AM. Reason: Edits for the edit god. Words for the English throne! Wait, what?Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
19-08-2013, 10:34 AM #167
The agency to play the game as she thought it would be played (via murder) was replaced with the agency to proceed via raping an injured woman (or we could join lordcooper in hurfing twelve blurfs about how it was fiction-in-fiction and therefore acceptable). I know; let's count the letters in the preview and work up some apocalyptic interpretations therefrom.
Gods, I don't even know chartreuse from butylene anymore.
19-08-2013, 10:53 AM #168
Back to agency, again there's no real distinction here except the artificial one. Another person could pick up the game and question why they don't have the agency to ignore incapacitated enemies, or why they lack the agency to attack in anything other than uber-violent ways. The fact that the game switches to something else doesn't suddenly create a whole new player agency argument - you lost your agency right at the start, the only path through is violence. If this was a smarter game (and it isn't) the loss of player agency could be a very interesting mechanic - forcing you to do horrible things could be very thought-provoking. Not all games have to be about choice, just as in real life sometimes your hand is forced. And before you bring out another strawman to set atop your walls, none of this justifies the scene nor does it invalidate anything Cara says or feels. I'm just pointing out that the player agency thing seems utterly ridiculous to me. There's an argument to be made that the inclusion of the sequence is odd and doesn't need to happen. That argument isn't player agency.
Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
19-08-2013, 12:06 PM #169
So... slept on it and had a thought.
Is that scene in game is really a rape? Cause in context, that's a movie stage, those are actors, "rape" victim is an actor. She read the script of the movie and since she's in the scene, I could say, it was her choice to be there.Hear from the spirit-world this mystery:
Creation is summed up, O man, in thee;
Angel and demon, man and beast art thou,
Yea, thou art all thou dost appear to be!
19-08-2013, 12:51 PM #170
19-08-2013, 01:02 PM #171
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Last edited by GameCat; 19-08-2013 at 01:07 PM.
19-08-2013, 01:06 PM #172
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19-08-2013, 01:13 PM #173
19-08-2013, 02:37 PM #174
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- Nov 2012
I don't get it at all. We're playing as some psychopat - if he can murder hundreds of people you shoudn't be surprised that he can also rape someone even if the game is in 99% about killing.
19-08-2013, 02:38 PM #175"Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""
19-08-2013, 03:05 PM #176
Sure, if RPS is the entirety of your internet.
19-08-2013, 03:43 PM #177
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- Jun 2011
19-08-2013, 03:47 PM #178
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- Feb 2013
They didn't even act it out.
20-08-2013, 02:17 AM #179
So, we start here:
"Deciding that he can arbitrarily exact horrific violence and yet rape is somehow outside that scope seems artificial to me."
To me, that reads as "Ellison deciding Pig Butcher can murder everyone but not rape anyone seems artificial." Fair? Hence me:
"It's clearly arbitrary; that's why Ellison seems to have found it troubling."
Perhaps you're caught up on my use of the word arbitrary instead of artificial? My bad, I guess; I think they're interchangeable there. My PoV is that the obviously-murky distinction between rape and murder (in terms of severity) is whence the previewer's dissonance arose. Ellison:
"And it starts to make me feel incredibly hypocritical: you liked the violence, I think. You liked, as the game says, hurting people. Why do you feel ugly now, for playing a game where your character rapes a woman? It isn’t even graphic, but implied. These are pixels, Cara. Just pixels."
The unannounced inclusion of rape jarred her and on pondering that experience she found the distinction she was making between murder and rape to be unsatisfactorily justified i.e. arbitrary i.e. artificial. That is the crux of the preview. She went on to explain that reaction by way of her sex and expectations.
I'm not misdirecting, I'm telling you what I see. My initial interpretation stands because you only question it by saying the use of agency was "ridiculous". I don't see why it warrants ridicule; it was nonstandard vis-a-vis academic critique and design, but I thought it communicated a PoV well. I think you're being wagged by a tail.
wrt HLM2: I think it's a trashy violence game with the same tight, addictive arcadey mechanics as the first. I personally don't mind that rape is featured because to my way of thinking it doesn't make the content shittier.
My inchoate societal stance on rape makes me uncomfortable because it leads to me believe the reactions of Ellison et al. (while genuine) hint at a wider cultural problem. The reactions gather public attention, though, so they're not wholly bad, and furthermore it's illogical to expect people absorbed in the current zeitgeist to react differently.
You know it was a casual remark, not a fucking genre analysis. lol, cripes.
MUR DUR SIM. MUR DUR SIM.
20-08-2013, 02:51 AM #180