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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    smac is a bit of a niche product. There isn't big money there...
    All depends on what you call big money. I daresay it'd still be a rather lucrative project - not CoD 8 lucrative, but good nonetheless.

    What I don't get is why it was never remade. For some reason Firaxis remade Colonization but has never done the same for it's (arguably) most popular 4X game. Strange. In fact, I distinctly remember Firaxis having a poll on its website asking the readers/fans to choose which of their games they'd like to see a remake of....Alpha Centauri won by a landslide, but they went for the #2 (Colonization). Are they that afraid that they can't reach the lonely heights of Brian Reynolds' vision?

    EDIT: found the poll and results

    1. Which Sid Meier’s game/series (past or present) would you most like to see remade?
    <table width="440"><tbody><tr><td class="std_xsm" align="RIGHT">Percent</td><td class="std_xsm"> </td><td class="std_xsm">Answer</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" id="highlight" align="RIGHT" width="40">48%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" id="highlight" width="260">Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">1%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Sid Meier’s Sim Golf</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">1%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Sid Meier’s Gettysburg!</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">27%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Sid Meier’s Colonization</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">1%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Sid Meier’s Covert Action</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">3%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Sid Meier’s Railroad Tycoon</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">1%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Gunship</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">0%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">F-19 Stealth Fighter</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">1%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Red Storm Rising</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">10%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Silent Service</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">7%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">I don’t care about remakes, give me something new!</td></tr></tbody></table>

    2. What is your gaming platform of choice (aside from the PC)?
    <table width="440"><tbody><tr><td class="std_xsm" align="RIGHT">Percent</td><td class="std_xsm"> </td><td class="std_xsm">Answer</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" id="highlight" align="RIGHT" width="40">27%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" id="highlight" width="260">Xbox</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">29%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">PS2</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">17%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">'Cube</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">27%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Handheld or Mobile</td></tr></tbody></table>

    3. Do you frequently play games on a laptop as well as a desktop PC?
    <table width="440"><tbody><tr><td class="std_xsm" align="RIGHT">Percent</td><td class="std_xsm"> </td><td class="std_xsm">Answer</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" id="highlight" align="RIGHT" width="40">46%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" id="highlight" width="260">Yes</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">54%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">No</td></tr></tbody></table>

    4. Graphics or Gameplay?
    <table width="440"><tbody><tr><td class="std_xsm" align="RIGHT">Percent</td><td class="std_xsm"> </td><td class="std_xsm">Answer</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">2%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">It’s gotta be pretty</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" align="RIGHT" width="40">51%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" width="260">Balance is the key</td></tr><tr><td class="std_sm" id="highlight" align="RIGHT" width="40">47%</td><td class="std_sm" width="10"> </td><td class="std_sm" id="highlight" width="260">Who cares about graphics?</td></tr></tbody></table>

  2. #62
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    What's wrong with being a niche product?
    Nothing; I'd argue that niche games are more likely to have love and care poured into them by developers who really enjoy that niche. But when a mythos builds up around a game like SMAC and someone who wants to make money takes notice... well, I've got a bridge to sell you if you think it'll be as good as the original. Not even SMAX added significantly to what made the game good, imo.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuddy View Post
    Nothing; I'd argue that niche games are more likely to have love and care poured into them by developers who really enjoy that niche. But when a mythos builds up around a game like SMAC and someone who wants to make money takes notice... well, I've got a bridge to sell you if you think it'll be as good as the original. Not even SMAX added significantly to what made the game good, imo.
    I think we'd all be happy enough with a visual update and ironing out of the biggest bugs.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuddy View Post
    Nothing; I'd argue that niche games are more likely to have love and care poured into them by developers who really enjoy that niche. But when a mythos builds up around a game like SMAC and someone who wants to make money takes notice... well, I've got a bridge to sell you if you think it'll be as good as the original. Not even SMAX added significantly to what made the game good, imo.
    Hence my original statement, and similar murmurings of reticence.
    Last edited by Nalano; 23-08-2011 at 02:44 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinox View Post
    I think we'd all be happy enough with a visual update and ironing out of the biggest bugs.
    But do you also think that's what going to happen?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuddy View Post
    But do you also think that's what going to happen?
    I guess not, no. :-(

  7. #67
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    The things with SMAC, is it had a -story-

    Not an emergent one like the Civ games, but an actual story, with characters.
    Sure, it could end very differently and develop differently, but there was a core story to it.

    Capturing that again is going to be very difficult. Unless they simply maintain what is there...
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  8. #68
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    I'd rather someone spin off with Alpha Centauri's best ideas than see a remake/sequel/cash-in/circle-jerk.

    Namely: Your opponents are vivid characters with vivid ideologies.

    It makes sense, how the different factions are distinguished between in AC. They're set apart by their beliefs about how one should act. They're coming from a civilization.
    But something like Civilization, where your opponents are separated along national lines, that doesn't make sense at all. Why does that distinction matter? And really, how can it? How can Proto-Germany know how to act when the modern stereotypes about that nation (and heck, the nation itself :P) only developed very recently (and in a limited sense, developed because of their actions themselves)? They're all moving toward a civilization, not away from one.

    If someone's going to do something Alpha Centauri-like, that's what I'd like them to think about. Characters. It gives the world a realism and depth and sense of story and meaning, to be coming up against a people who act this way because they believe that idea, rather than fighting a people who act this way because, well, that's just how those guys act, y'know? It's in their blood. Plus have you noticed they all look the same don't they?

    (In fact, hey, that's what Civ's religions and cultures and governments should be all about: modifiers that determine how the AI acts. It should mean something different to encounter a pluralistic democratic nation than a Confucianist dictatorship)

  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    What's wrong with being a niche product?
    nothing wrong with it and not sure why would you ask that question.

    but you say smac 2 is inspired by money. i say there aren't big money there to justify a company to make the game. so they can't, in my opinion, be motivated by money when they decided to make the game.

  10. #70
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    nothing wrong with it and not sure why would you ask that question.

    but you say smac 2 is inspired by money. i say there aren't big money there to justify a company to make the game. so they can't, in my opinion, be motivated by money when they decided to make the game.
    Because you don't make a AAA game with the intent to make big loads of money from a niche IP with a rabid fanbase and expect to keep the heart of the niche IP intact. X-Com syndrome.

    Tangentially related - That's why I like a lot of anime and manga creators: They have an idea. That idea spans a narrative arc. That idea ends. They don't make a sequel until they have another idea. That time may take decades, but in order to maintain the quality of their work, they wait for the inspiration to come.

    I don't necessarily hate remakes and sequels. After all, Aliens is a sequel and Aliens is awesome. (Of course, everything after that is crap.) But Aliens clearly had a theme and a plot that was wholly different from Alien despite existing in the same universe. Somebody came up with an original idea before the movie was made.

    Fallout 3 basically lifted themes and plot wholesale from Fallout and Fallout 2 despite not being in the same place or time, and as such was hackneyed and cynical. Fallout New Vegas, by contrast, actually had new things to say - not vault dwellers vs mutants or civilized vs tribals, but empire vs empire.

    SMAC has a high bar. I don't expect it to be raised by this sequel, because I don't think a bunch of sci fi aficionados suddenly had an epiphany about what they want to do with SMAC2. I think a bunch of marketers are scraping the bottom of the barrel of IPs they own.
    Last edited by Nalano; 24-08-2011 at 02:51 AM.
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  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    well aren't we a bit cynical.

    hope you are wrong! time will tell tough.

  12. #72
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    I think we played different Fallouts.

  13. #73
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    well aren't we a bit cynical.

    hope you are wrong! time will tell tough.
    I hope I'm wrong, too! But I suspect I'm not.

    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    I think we played different Fallouts.
    I dunno. Was the Fallout 3 you played one where the main plot was to get a clean source of water (a la Fallout 1) where the Big Bad was the remnants of the US government (a la Fallout 2) whose leader was a computer you could talk into blowing itself up (a la Fallout 1)?

    Did you mainly fight Super Mutants despite the whole FEV thing being a California experiment that you, well, blew up in Fallout 1? Were you helped out by an overt army from the Brotherhood of Steel, despite their being an intensely xenophobic, secretive paramilitary society with very limited resources clear on the other side of the country?

    Were there hordes of raiders despite very few settlers to, well, raid? Were there slavers despite the fact that, due to mass stupidity, nobody grew food and thus keeping extra humans alive would be a liability? Were you expected to believe that turning on a water filtration plant at the mouth of a tidal basin was supposed to do anything? Were you expected to believe that filtering irradiated water was actually difficult and required a top scientist years of study?

    Dude, the fact that they forgot to put these elements into context highlights just how much they said, "hey, these are iconic facets of the Fallout experience. Let's plop them in our game willy-nilly."
    Last edited by Nalano; 24-08-2011 at 02:12 PM.
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  14. #74
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Dude, the fact that they forgot to put these elements into context highlights just how much they said, "hey, these are iconic facets of the Fallout experience. Let's plop them in our game willy-nilly."
    Well said. New Vegas is The Empire Strikes Back while Fallout 3 is The Phantom Menace.

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