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18-08-2013, 03:49 PM #1
[VS] Theme Week 3 (18 - 25 August): Comms disciplineSo far we have improved our squad cohesion and supported new leaders with theme weeks. To make us easier to lead for all those new leaders and to make us more effective generally it's time for some...Whichever comms system we use we always find some people are getting overloaded with voices. Also, we sometimes waste too much time giving tactical reports inefficiently. Both make us less effective and prevent the free flow of banter. This week is about reinforcing a few basics about what to say, when and how to reduce both of these problems. The result should be straightforward comms where banter thrives and we are more effective at fighting.
Theme Week 3
18 - 25 August
Comms disciplineGetting the point across more easily
without getting in the way of the banter.
What's this then?
List of do's:
- Think before you speak.
- Identify squad and platoon leader's voices (mumble overlay can help here) and shut up quickly when they start speaking.
- Be succinct and specific when you give tactical reports.
- Shut up immediately when someone says "break break".
- Once you've said "break break" let people know when to recommence bantering by saying "all clear".
- Use your squad name and number to identify yourself to others: "Bravo three needs some ammo".
- Use the compass to give directions: "They're spawning at the north western corner of the base".
- Define between friendly/enemy: "Friendly/Enemy Sunderer down" = lost spawn point/successful attack.
- Check which channel you're speaking to. Only speak to all if you really need to.
- Generally be excellent to each other.
- Chat and banter as much as the game will allow.
- Politely call people out if they're not following these guidelines. Consider using /tell for this purpose.
- Spread the word on Mumble!
List of don'ts:
- Do not shout out anything that sounds like orders if you are not the SL or PL: "Ok everyone get over here", "Everyone needs to redeploy to warpgate NOW". etc.
- Don't talk over other people.
- Don't over use "break break" - generally it should only be used by SLs, PLs and ROs when they can't get their orders or sitreps across. The nature of the game is that there will always be 'urgent' tactical info (e.g. MAAAAXXX!!!) to report but using "break break" for this stifles comms unnecessarily which risks people not respecting "break break" in future.
- Talk open-endedly to no one in particular - if people aren't really engaging with your story about that time you killed a prowler on your own maybe it's because they don't really want to hear it now.
- Get personal if people aren't following these comms guidelines, see above about being excellent.
Spread the word!
For this to work as intended, people need to know this is an actual thing that is happening, and I can't personally be on to make it known. Help me. Tell people that this week, we're focusing on comms so that we banter when the time is right and our interl reports are more useful.
As always, comments, additions, discussion are all welcome below!
18-08-2013, 03:51 PM #2
- Join Date
- Sep 2012
As someone who's very guilty of Don't #4, I'll do my best to spread the word and be disciplined this week. I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
19-08-2013, 07:22 AM #3
Good choice! Just some very basic discipline with comms is sorely needed. Sadly, I won't be experiencing much of it, since this week is my Swing society's kick-off week, with lots of dancing and stuff. I would like to see some info posted on what, if anything, has been done this week, and whether it seems to have worked or not. Nothing special, really, just a few words here and there to keep us in the loop.
19-08-2013, 10:35 AM #4
When I joined Sunday evening we had 3 almost full squads in the first channel. I joined mid-fight and have to say (to my great surprise) the comms worked fine. I know I wasn't the only person to log on and wonder what the hell 30+ people were doing in a single channel, but I kept quiet and watched how we did; it served us well through a couple of fights.
It wasn't until we spread into Delta and got a couple of more vocal SLs that comms became too cluttered, and that is not a criticism. We split quickly and painlessly after a capture and the game carried on.
The comms in this game are so situational, but we followed most of the rules above on Sunday and I had a damn good time.
19-08-2013, 10:12 PM #5
Good to hear about the times when comms were good as well as the horror stories. I'll not be in game much this week so please could all forumsiders make an effort to raise comms awareness in game. If comms gets better we all win.
10-02-2014, 02:09 PM #6
Hey peeps! Last theme week was a long, long time ago. Are we ready for theme week 4?
I'm thinking we turn this into a "theme fortnight" type of thing, running over two weeks, rather than just one. I myself often can't play more than one or two nights a week, and it'd be fun to get some more time working on the theme.
The theme week is a time when we try to reinforce good behaviour and gameplay by focusing on a single, fairly clearly defined topic or tactic. Throughout the week, all players, especially leaders but grunts too, should try to remind each other about the thing we're trying to get better at, and hopefully, in the long run, it will become a habit.
So, my suggestion for theme is "Tactical Positioning", primarily in group play, and to a lesser extent in individual play. I was inspired by this, which was recently reposted on the PS subreddit:
http://i.imgur.com/sFll8DA.jpg (original thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/c..._on_defensive/)
Basically we do this:
- The chokepoints are where the enemy should be, not us!
- On the defense:
- Constantly remind other players to think about their positioning (keep chokepoints clear and multiple lines of fire open towards them, ensure observation coverage, avoid clumping too tightly etc).
- This is everyone's responsibility! Call out anyone who stands in the doorway, ask them to step aside. Call out (nicely!) over proximity chat if other friendlies are doing it.
- Try not to run around too much when on the defence. Sitting still for long periods of time can be boring, but try not to run into other peoples' lines of fire if you don't need to.
- When on the offense:
- Always push through the chokepoints! Heavy overshield on, and just push through. MAX charge all the fucking way to the back of the room and take out the medics. You might drop, but the person behind you stands a chance of taking out some of the defenders.
- When inside, try to spread out to clear the line of fire for those coming behind you. The more fire we can put on the enemy, the more effective we will become!
- Suppressive fire sometimes actually works. Enemy holds a building with windows? Putting a squaddie or two on suppression duty, might dissuade them from popping their ugly mugs out the windows to fire at the advancing troops.
10-02-2014, 02:34 PM #7
Oh God yes!
These days I just drop anyone who stands in that doorway, don't care who they are. Maybe I should be nicer? nah.
I think we are not to bad on the defence these days, but offence, we are lacking in aggression. Most players are. We need to up the aggression to 11.
Oh and as VS we have the best suppression weapon available in the game. We need to use, and horrendously abuse, it.
10-02-2014, 02:45 PM #8
Very good idea to bring the theme weeks up again.
The theme positioning is in my opinion a good choice, too, because everyone has something he can do and needs to do for personal success (or at least to gain more success); nice idea to use prox chat for randoms.
I remember another infographic in this style which was much longer and had more points on it (like the battle buddy) - anyone remembers this one (maybe with the location of it )
EDIT: Not sure if it was this one, which is only about battle buddys (slightly another topic; should we include it into the theme week?)
EDIT2: I found them - I think it was this collection of multiple graphics I thought of: http://rgqtgamers.com/forum/m/110868...ter/most-views
10-02-2014, 03:18 PM #9
I think the two important things here are:
- Never ever stand still in a chokepoint, you will expose yourself to enemy fire, and stop friendly fire from reaching the enemy. Push through or step away. Dig the 3D's: Don't Dance in Doorways!
- Doorways are the obvious chokepoints but don't discount stairs, corners and windows!
10-02-2014, 03:34 PM #10
Suiciding to kill an engineer/medic supporting a max crash is something people need to do more often.
10-02-2014, 04:07 PM #11
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Great idea. Positioning is something that can always be improved upon and it would be amazing if we could get every single one of us into the habit of always keeping chokepoints clear.
10-02-2014, 06:27 PM #12
It always makes me laugh (well, cry inwardly anyway) when I hear, within seconds of each other, 1 person telling the rest to sit still on defense, and within moments, someone asking for a rez. I play medic most of the time, and I've found if you aren't staying a) aware of your surroundings and b) very mobile, you aren't doing any useful healing or rezzing either. I appreciate the need to keep lines of fire clear, and I'm aware of the advantage gained versus enemy recon darts by staying still. But unless or until we are at a point where we've organised room holds to the degree where everyone has an assigned position, we know where the medics are and which areas they are each covering, etc, if you tell your medics to stand still you are also telling them not to supply any rezzes or heals to anyone who is out of L5 med tool reach.
Clearly the situation needs some common sense applied to it, but it seems to me that whenever this gets brought up, the only aspect which people seem keen to repeat is a somewhat berating "you should be standing still on defense and if you're not you're doing it wrong" which simplifies things far too much. I think we could stand to have a better discussion than that.
The reality is more like - maxes, heavies, stay still, engies stay with your max buddy, medics stay away from the front line but otherwise move as required to heal/rez, infils run around like lunatics to keep your darts up, and everyone stay aware of lines of fire. But a blanket prohibition on all movement in a hold scenario is definitely not good play of itself.
Equally I'm sure there's a whole discussion to be had about lines of fire. If you set up an idiotic line of fire - for example by transecting the room we've set up in - it's you in the wrong, not the friendly you just TKd. If you're a MAX or a heavy - or anyone really who's current job is just to shoot the bad guys - don't set up in such a way that your support can't do their thing.
This doesn't even address the way the game's hit detection code works, which, briefly, means if you are ever standing still, you have all but guaranteed your opponent will get the first shot off. That's a whole 'nother mess of beans, and it doesn't necessarily translate into something useful for squad play.
TL;DR Positioning: it's not just about standing still. There's still no excuse for standing in a doorway though.
Last edited by Kal; 11-02-2014 at 05:45 PM. Reason: duplicate offs!
10-02-2014, 08:31 PM #13
We are not a crack, trained unit.
"Stand the fuck still" works as a very simple, easy to follow order that ensures cross fire is less of a problem. moreover, if all your team-mates are stationary than that cloaker or LA will be much, much more easily spotted and taken out.
If team mates are falling, of courses medics should move to revive. HOWEVER. Only when it is safe to and move by sticking to walls to keep out of lines of sight.
There is fuck all reason to revive someone at the top of the stairs if the enemy is still lobbing rockets up the stairs. Being a good medic means knowing when to stay the fuck still even if there are nearby rezzes needed.Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
10-02-2014, 08:54 PM #14
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
I think one of the reasons staying put is emphasised so much is because when you are positioned well you really don't need to move that much. Think where you need to be and be there.
Guess there are always exceptions, but even in the case of medics - a good position might mean that everyone is within range of your med-tool.
10-02-2014, 09:34 PM #15
I'm with Kal on the need for medics to move, engies too to keep for being shelled or pinned when their max can take it but they can't. But yes generally make them move into the damn room to find us - there is no point trying to duck in and out of a room or clustering the door, you just get 'naded, shelled, mozzied etc.
Find cover, Use it, Lay ammo, use turrets - I hate people who just treat them as mobile cover - the AI mana (a pair spaced is better) can lock down a doorway just as well as a couple of maxes and cost nothing in inf res, but they NEED someone else not on a turret to cover them.
There is a happy medium from clustering in the door to being all around the walls frozen in place, but if you put your turret opposite the door and then get grumpy when people walk in front of it, then you're doing it wrong. Ideal placement is where you have a clear line but others can get around. Same for Maxes. If you place yourself infront of everyone and restrict their fire it's just the same as those clustering the door.
Mines and C4 should be used for an ambush - but don't chuck em down in the primary chosen doorway. We'll just det them ourselves by accident and probably hurt people. Use em for other doors than the main approach, outside windows, leave a few else where in the base.
C4 on a stair wall or the top of a door frame is lethal to MAX support units.
Lashers. Lashers. Oh the Lashers. But again, like turrets they need a cover man. We are pretty good as medics, but a bit less so as Engies, remember you are a support class!
Offensively we need to get better at trickling. We have lost some of the squad cohesion we had over the last few months recently. It shouldn't really need SL's to keep saying group up, but it does. If we have clear targets we are better - one for the SL/PL's to think about.
Our storming a room plan should really be simple, we need to be able to do it on the fly with those who are there. So.
Grible's Plan for Getting into a Hostile Room.
- Pick a door that isn't the nearest one. (Unless you are in a Rush,Zerg or getting round would just get you killed.)
- Grenades In, even normal Nades will do, Concs and Flashes are better.
- Us In - Maxes first, Heavies shielded, then the rest.
- Get Right In - this is best summed up by my second most favourite Scottish Phrase. "Git in aboot thum". Don't stop in the doorway, or just inside, use SMGs and Shotguns and heavy Pistols, get in, get close and kill the swine or die trying.
- Clear it Out, too many times we leave one or two of them alive and they shoot us after we think it's clear. If you move fast and far enough in then you might die but the next two boys ought to finish them off.
- Dig In - rez our guys, get spread out, pop some ammo and turrets, see above!
There are rooms we just cannot storm, but one on one and in a medium sized fight there is no reason we shouldn't turf people off of points.
11-02-2014, 08:12 AM #16
The bottom line is that we should be setting our lines of fire up such that the support classes who need to move have space behind the shooters to do so, not just prohibiting everyone from moving. Our medics need to be free to move to rez based on their best judgement; our engies may need to move to keep themselves in cover while repairing their target max especially in those situations where their cover is their max; our infils need to move almost constantly to get their recon darts down in a good position. The heavies and MAXes should be far enough away from the entry points that they have minimised the incoming lines of fire, but close enough that there is plenty of space behind them for the support classes to move around.
Just ordering everyone to "stand the fuck still" might be simple but in practice it only guarantees that the heavies and maxes can do their job properly. We're effectively telling maxes and heavies they don't need to set up good lines of fire because we're going to compensate by just making everyone stand still, when we should be encouraging shooters to set up lines of fire that allow for quality support play. I think we can do better than just "simple" without needing to be any kind of crack trained unit.