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Thread: Gone Home

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameCat View Post
    2. Locker with digit-based lock? There's many posters with numbers in room with that locker? Let's input them all. None of them works. Even these that MUST WORK BECAUSE IT'S A VIDEOGAME (picture of cat on said locker and collar of said cat that lies nearby and have number on it (collar, not cat)).

    3. It's a horror game that doesn't contain anything scary at all, but you will be probably imaginig some grimdark, bloody, gritty, scary stuff here (see first brackets in number 2 entry). Beat that, Amnesia.
    While i don't want to get involved in this discussion all too deeply i can't help but point out that one of those points is more than a bit silly while the other one seems to be missing the point. When it comes to 1: The 'solution' to that 'puzzle' was so incredibly game-y and contrived and actually renders the point you were trying to make completely moot... having a lock combination that has some personal significance would make way more sense in the context of this oh so personal story than *spoiler*two strips of paper in hidden compartments... get it? her closet lock combination is hidden in little closets! oh...so deep! grarr...*spoiler*

    3.: snarky comment: so you're saying that *spoiler*the central molestation-based subplot of the house itself*spoiler* isn't scary? I found that more interesting than the main story, but the way it was handled was more than a bit cliché-d.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pertusaria View Post
    Deano, ease up. I don't like much of what he's said either, but getting personally nasty isn't helping the community either.
    It used to be that I'd laugh off being called a fucking idiot on here, but lately I've found joy in taking the John Walker approach of telling awful people they are awful, in the hopes they go away. It's refreshing.

  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    Interesting, because I had the opposite reaction: it was pretty obvious from the start, and pretty clearly on purpose.
    I know, it was obvious. What I'm saying is that the "discovery" of Sam's homosexuality was clearly supposed to be a 'secret' for Katie (and by extension the player) for discovery - you can see that in the little pop-up hints for objects you can examine. And you could still see it from a mile away. It's borderline stereotypical.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    And come on - every real life teenage love story is overly dramatic.
    Every real life teenage love story is overly dramatic for that person. To everyone else it's boring, and really that goes for most things in someone's life. All of the things that weigh heavily on my shoulders right now probably aren't very interesting for you, hell you might find them trivial. And that's okay. But I'm not trying to make a story about my life be some sort of magnum opus, or a triumph of storytelling in 'gaming'. The story the game is telling me is boring. Yes it's overly dramatic because it's a teen love drama, but the focus on the voice acting and on this particular relationship makes it far worse.

    The other plot points that are uncovered entirely through piecing together forgotten letters and other correspondence were far more entertaining and approached in a much more mature way. The main plot was basically listening to someone read someone else's diary in a dramatic way, and the subject wasn't particularly interesting. It's not really that well written or well delivered, and it's all the more unusual because the other plot points are well done (if under-developed).
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  4. #44
    Network Hub grasskit's Avatar
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    so wait the main plot is about some teenage love story? well now im definitely not gonna play this

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procrastination Giant View Post
    While i don't want to get involved in this discussion all too deeply i can't help but point out that one of those points is more than a bit silly while the other one seems to be missing the point. When it comes to 1: The 'solution' to that 'puzzle' was so incredibly game-y and contrived and actually renders the point you were trying to make completely moot... having a lock combination that has some personal significance would make way more sense in the context of this oh so personal story than *spoiler*two strips of paper in hidden compartments... get it? her closet lock combination is hidden in little closets! oh...so deep! grarr...*spoiler*

    3.: snarky comment: so you're saying that *spoiler*the central molestation-based subplot of the house itself*spoiler* isn't scary? I found that more interesting than the main story, but the way it was handled was more than a bit cliché-d.
    To be honest, I've missed totaly that sub-plot. And while it can be considered scary it's more like your father, a WWII veteran was telling you about living in Auschwitz. It sure can shock you and it sure had impact on your dad's life but it isn't the same scare like in horrors, where you or your familly/friends can die in present time or something. It's just a past.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by grasskit View Post
    so wait the main plot is about some teenage love story? well now im definitely not gonna play this
    The main story of this game is either a cliché-ridden teenage love story or a cynical commentary on the state of the industry/our society, where everybody turns a blind eye to, or even applauds things like statutory rape or a minor being negatively influenced so far as to cause blatant cleptomany to fuel chasing ones' dream as long as the involved parties are female. But that might give the developers too much credit or my morning coffee isn't strong enough to fully enable my 'straight guilt', so i'd have to go with the former, so yes - it's probably a teenage lovestory... probably, despite the story having some fairly 'morally' ambiguous undertones.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameCat View Post
    To be honest, I've missed totaly that sub-plot. And while it can be considered scary it's more like your father, a WWII veteran was telling you about living in Auschwitz. It sure can shock you and it sure had impact on your dad's life but it isn't the same scare like in horrors, where you or your familly/friends can die in present time or something. It's just a past.
    Yeah, that sub-plot is fairly easy to miss since it involves piecing together the history of the house and the rather nebulous reasons for the inheritance of it. But regardless of it being 'scary' or an interesting little piece of 'real', urban horror it could put an interesting twist on the oh so typical reaction of the parents. *spoiler* If you piece that story together it becomes clear that the father inherited the house because the former owner was riddled with guilt for molesting him as a young boy. It's also heavily implied that her father still hasn't come to terms with that event and has trouble coping with now living in that house. So him reacting with what basically amounts to denial towards Sam confessing her homosexuality could be seen as being a little more complex than imediately apparent. *spoiler* But i'm not sure if that's intentional...

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Every real life teenage love story is overly dramatic for that person. To everyone else it's boring, and really that goes for most things in someone's life.
    Wow, so anything that isn't about your own life is "boring" to you? Not everybody is so cold and narcissistic. Most people care about the lives of others and can feel empathy toward them. That's how story-telling works. You're supposed to make a connection with the character and feel a little bit of what they feel.

    The other plot points that are uncovered entirely through piecing together forgotten letters and other correspondence were far more entertaining and approached in a much more mature way. The main plot was basically listening to someone read someone else's diary in a dramatic way, and the subject wasn't particularly interesting. It's not really that well written or well delivered, and it's all the more unusual because the other plot points are well done (if under-developed).
    Well, that fits your personality I guess since those other plots were pretty cold, delivered in dry, professional letters and stuffy business memos.

    And you seem to be confused here -- the main plot is not someone reading someone else's diary, the voiceover for the journal is in Sam's voice, reading her own journal. I thought that was pretty obvious.

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    You can have an opinion on the art. But having an opinion on the price when you didn't pay for it is squiffy.
    What? You can't have an opinion on prices unless you already bought something? That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

    "What do you mean this car is too expensive for your budget? You haven't even bought it yet!"

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    What? You can't have an opinion on prices unless you already bought something? That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

    "What do you mean this car is too expensive for your budget? You haven't even bought it yet!"
    Not in terms of how value relates to price. You view stuff different if you get it for free. It's not insurmountable - it's what reviewers do all the time - but as I say: squiffy.

    Your example would be the most idiotic thing I'd heard all day but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you didn't read what I wrote properly.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    A story has always been a simple thing, and telling it has always been difficult. Technology has never changed this and never will. Technology's nothing without people able and willing to put it to good use.

    I'll take well-written stories of modest scope over thrown-together epic spectacles any day, especially since it's those modest experiments, when done well, that lay the groundwork for bigger ones.

    Gone Home's creators clearly chose a very simple story with very clear narrative constraints,
    and clearly did it for a reason. And that's OK. Just because you didn't connect with it doesn't mean it wasn't well done.
    You don't think the written word, movies or games have had massive effects on story telling? Err....ummm...ok.

    The old "Just because you didn't connect" is a giant cop out. Some people "connect" with Dan Brown novels, this doesn't mean they're not shit.

    You're right about the narrative constraints though. They are very clear.

  11. #51
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    OP, As much as you disliked the game (which you have all the right to), you should seriously put some effing huge spoiler tags just out of respect for people that wanted to try this game or whatever (like me) and just got it ruined because you delivered some pretty big information that would make the experience absolutely pointless.
    You know, just to not make it look like you're just a self centered asshole.

  12. #52
    Network Hub Pertusaria's Avatar
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    I would tentatively suggest not reading any game-specific forum on RPS after the game has come out and before you play it, if it's a game you want to play, as it's more likely to be spoilery than not. That said, sorry.
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  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Not in terms of how value relates to price. You view stuff different if you get it for free. It's not insurmountable - it's what reviewers do all the time - but as I say: squiffy.

    Your example would be the most idiotic thing I'd heard all day but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you didn't read what I wrote properly.
    Nah, I got your message. It was "your opinion doesn't count if you pirate" and it's wrong.

  14. #54
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    I like how OP blames (video game) hipsters but acts like the worst among them, i.e. overstating the importance of his own personal taste way too much.
    Last edited by Wolfenswan; 22-08-2013 at 09:12 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Every real life teenage love story is overly dramatic for that person. To everyone else it's boring, and really that goes for most things in someone's life. All of the things that weigh heavily on my shoulders right now probably aren't very interesting for you, hell you might find them trivial.
    Yes-- unless the story is told well. And even when the story is told well, it simply won't reach some people because it doesn't resonate with them. My point is that the second part doesn't invalidate the first part. There's a difference between one person finding a story boring and a story being objectively bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chorltonwheelie View Post
    You don't think the written word, movies or games have had massive effects on story telling? Err....ummm...ok.
    Assuming the least generous possible interpretation of people's words is kind of the national sport around here, innit?

    I had trouble with the idea that we should be able to tell better stories because of the technology available to us. Telling good stories is immensely difficult, and the core act of crafting a story with skill hasn't changed much if at all over the course of civilized history. There's a reason people still read Homer even when they could go see Pacific Rim.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Nah, I got your message. It was "your opinion doesn't count if you pirate" and it's wrong.
    It wasn't and you didn't but since you're being a prick I'm not going to bother explaining it to you.

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
    Wow, so anything that isn't about your own life is "boring" to you? [...] You're supposed to make a connection with the character and feel a little bit of what they feel.
    What, because it's someone else's story I must have a connection with them? I'm sorry (actually I'm not) but a teenage love drama story just isn't very interesting to me. I'm far more interested in everyone else's story than Sam's story because I just don't find it particularly interesting. I don't find the love affairs of my friends particularly interesting either. To suggest I lack empathy simply because I'm not interested in a love sick teenager and how she reunited with her lover is, quite frankly, a load of bullshit.

    I doubt you'd find my life particularly entertaining if you rifled through my papers or listened to me drone on about what I'm doing, unless you're into that sort of thing. Excuse me for not finding the main story engaging! Something that personal is mostly significant to the people involved in the story. It doesn't help that it seems sort of contrived and stereotypical as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
    Well, that fits your personality I guess since those other plots were pretty cold, delivered in dry, professional letters and stuffy business memos.
    Yeah, because having the story rammed down my throat with audio logs is a much more interesting way to tell a story!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
    And you seem to be confused here -- the main plot is not someone reading someone else's diary, the voiceover for the journal is in Sam's voice, reading her own journal. I thought that was pretty obvious.
    You're wrong, I'm not confused - I know it's Sam's voice reading her own journal. The implication is that Katie reads/learns all of this. I can see how I worded that badly but it's blatantly obvious that it's Sam reading her journal. Unless a disembodied voice is following Katie around this whole time reading passages, I suspect Katie eventually has to read it to gain any of this insight. Otherwise it's crap storytelling totally out of place with the rest of the setting where Katie pieces together what's happened since she's been away.
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  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Nah, I got your message. It was "your opinion doesn't count if you pirate" and it's wrong.
    How you acquire something does come with built in value judgments. These can be all over the map and are by no means universal, but to put it in a more clear (and trite) manner: your relationship with a product prior to consumption affects how you feel about it as does the environment in which you consume the product. The same painting is going to work better in a room where thought has gone into how it fits into it's surroundings, and is going to be taken more seriously in a museum. It's easy to sneer at this as people being gullible tosspots, but that sneering is shortsighted. I'm not fond of ideas about objective quality (because fuck Plato among other things), so perception is rather a big deal to me.

    For some, piracy is not inherently devaluing. But speaking in aggregates rather than individuals, pirates are stripping a product of it's monetary value. They are eschewing exchange. Just as people who slap down a $60 pre-order have a vested interest in validating that purchase, pirates have a vested interest in devaluing the product. Confirmation bias works towards confirming that we made the correct choice, whatever choice that was. Whether your choice was to eschew exchange or purchase the product, complaints about the value of the product should be taken with an understanding of which way confirmation bias is pulling.

    The less conventional the method of viewing the product, the less relevant the value assessment is to people intending to experience the product conventionally. This doesn't mean pirates can't have opinions or even that they can't have opinions about price. The specific bias inherent in piracy is still relevant. My own thoughts, at least. It is of course relevant where the customer's emphasis is going into experiencing the product. For some customers, the cost of the game is a very carefully considered matter. For others, as long as their overall budget for games and such is kept under par, anything goes. How strongly you care about a decision is going to have an impact on how much confirmation bias affects your valuing of that decision later.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 23-08-2013 at 02:50 AM.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    For some, piracy is not inherently devaluing. But speaking in aggregates rather than individuals, pirates are stripping a product of it's monetary value. They are eschewing exchange. Just as people who slap down a $60 pre-order have a vested interest in validating that purchase, pirates have a vested interest in devaluing the product. Confirmation bias works towards confirming that we made the correct choice, whatever choice that was. Whether your choice was to eschew exchange or purchase the product, complaints about the value of the product should be taken with an understanding of which way confirmation bias is pulling.
    I wonder, the same mechanism seems to apply to bundles and mad steam sales. While the transaction is "legit", many people seem to treat their purchases with less respect, simply because they got five of them for 5 usd total.

    Then again, the sales issue is probably more connected to backlog hoarding, then to price. Collection - instead of playing - becomes the main focus and thus the game itself becomes less important.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    I wonder, the same mechanism seems to apply to bundles and mad steam sales. While the transaction is "legit", many people seem to treat their purchases with less respect, simply because they got five of them for 5 usd total.

    Then again, the sales issue is probably more connected to backlog hoarding, then to price. Collection - instead of playing - becomes the main focus and thus the game itself becomes less important.
    The less extreme the method of acquiring the product from the default method, the smaller I'd anticipate it's effect on value to be. In a very simple sense though, the more often you get games cheaply the less monetary value you're going to ascribe to games. That doesn't equate directly to respecting those games less.

    You make an interesting point about bundles. Price paid aside, bundles frequently give players games they don't like or already own; this probably has an effect on the how gamers value the individual products in the bundle because the entire experience is inherently more grouped than it would be for an arbitrary group of games purchased separately. They're all part of the same purchase and to some extent part of the same valuation.
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    You ruined his point by putting it in context that’s cheating -bull0

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