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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    RIP Crimson Skies, Halo 2 and Phantom Dust online play.
    You mean the old MSN gaming zone?
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  2. #22
    Network Hub Stellar Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    I dunno, I suspect most of the devs just won't care, as Gfwl does support offline mode and the only reason to not use that is for achievements and multiplayer, both of which can be marked as "Not currently enabled".
    So, when I want to install, say, Red Faction Gorilla in a few years and the GFWL that's wrapped in the installer is terribly out of date and wants to update and can't then what? Because, GFWL will not allow you to play without an update, be it for the game or the client.

    GFWL is a terrible product and it's badly executed and frankly, I doubt the offline mode you keep talking about will work in a few years on a fresh install on a new computer. Stop bloody defending crap like it.
    Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since 1982.

  3. #23
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    I don't see them turning off the authentication servers this soon. The cost of leaving them up would be trivial for a company like MS. They could even put them into an auto-permit mode, so they just respond with a 'yes' for every authentication check. We can worry about DLC, online features and multi-player, but I wouldn't panic about authentication yet.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stellar Duck View Post
    GFWL is a terrible product and it's badly executed and frankly, I doubt the offline mode you keep talking about will work in a few years on a fresh install on a new computer. Stop bloody defending crap like it.
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/hea...trarian,33162/

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stellar Duck View Post
    So, when I want to install, say, Red Faction Gorilla in a few years and the GFWL that's wrapped in the installer is terribly out of date and wants to update and can't then what? Because, GFWL will not allow you to play without an update, be it for the game or the client.

    GFWL is a terrible product and it's badly executed and frankly, I doubt the offline mode you keep talking about will work in a few years on a fresh install on a new computer. Stop bloody defending crap like it.
    So not screaming "It is bullshit" is defending it?

    If the game needs Gfwl to actually install, then yeah, we are fucked. But if it just needs it for additional features, there is absolutely no reason for the vast majority of devs and publishers to bother fixing it.

    Also, I vaguely recall downloading an update in my web browser when Fallout 3 came out, so I suspect that those cases won't be any worse than the hassle of installing an older game (so annoying enough that I'll rebuy with GoG :p).
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  6. #26
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    This is why we've got a thread for is stuff, man. So we can talk about what will/will not be salveagable and what everyone can do to salvage their games if the company won't step up to the plate. So we're also trying to work out which companies may or may not step up to the plate so that when it does go off (and it will), we'll have some clues. It'll also be worthwhile if people can talk about the problems -now- because GFWL is a minefield of them and stuff like Vin bringing up the script extender is valuable. No-one else on the planet shares your view of xliveless, no-one. It's the only way many people can get some GFWL games to load, of course we should discuss these things.

    So we could do talk about that or we could have a debate about whether we should even be talking about these things which is what you seem to want to do. You obviously don't want to contribute to this so wouldn't it be easier if you just saved some typing and didn't so everyone else can get on with what the thread is about?
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
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  7. #27
    So are we to assume cracking our games will become necessary, the very thing publishers are trying to prevent? I've never cracked a game in my life and I'm not about to start; but If I can't play GTA IV online anymore I might not have much choice.

  8. #28
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    Pretty much guaranteed over the next few years. GFWL is the poster child for all this but we've gone from tying games into a few systems (Gamespy for multiplayer or what have you) to tying games into loads. At the high end you've got stuff like GFWL, Steam, uPlay, Origin and the likes, but there's all manner of other things. From the obvious in your face of R* Social Club or online passes to stuff you won't see like server rental to manage IAP transactions, stuff for metrics and more.

    We're building in many points of failure into games right now and there's no way to guarantee that some will fail nicely if one of the services goes down, not with the way most people make games anyway.

    But yeah, we're pretty much setting up a place whereby either games will just disappear or require cracks to continue to run.
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
    I just get a bit fidgety times
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  9. #29
    You'd have thought R* would have learnt after the got caught having included nocd cracks in the Steam releases of some of their older games just to get them working.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    My understanding is that you can either save offline or online, but can't switch once you choose.
    As long as the auth servers are up. If these are down, nothing in the world a greyed out "offline" button will do for you (I'm assuming 1 time activation/last time check up is needed).

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepper View Post
    You mean the old MSN gaming zone?
    The Xbox release.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimson...oad_to_Revenge

    Oh man, MSN gaming zone. Remember playing a few games on there quite a bit...flashbacks to that and classic B.net and Westwood Online.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    So we could do talk about that or we could have a debate about whether we should even be talking about these things which is what you seem to want to do. You obviously don't want to contribute to this so wouldn't it be easier if you just saved some typing and didn't so everyone else can get on with what the thread is about?
    There is a difference between "how are we going to be fucked when this is dead?" and "Hey guys, here is a crack you can use now, while the system still works". I realize that might be a hard distinction to understand, but it is basically the difference between promoting piracy as a first and last course of action.

    And I realize you just want to paint me as some evil villain, but you'll notice that I am pretty much all for this discussion, I just don't think linking to the cracks until the system is actually unusable (not "Oh my god, this sucks" unusable, but "Wow, they turned off the servers" unusable) is the wisest course.

    Quote Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
    So are we to assume cracking our games will become necessary, the very thing publishers are trying to prevent? I've never cracked a game in my life and I'm not about to start; but If I can't play GTA IV online anymore I might not have much choice.
    Honestly, it kind of has been for decades. I have a fully legal copy of Star Crusader for the 486, but there is something about the CD check it uses that dosbox just won't emulate it, so I actually had to search for a cracked version. And lots of the old "What is on Page X of the manual" get problematic if you were the kind of person who had "The big box of floppies"

    But the thing to remember: Usually, when this happens, you have a lot more issues getting games to work than just getting past the DRM. So in that sense, this actually IS pretty interesting since many of these games are still easily installed and played.

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnicalBen View Post
    As long as the auth servers are up. If these are down, nothing in the world a greyed out "offline" button will do for you (I'm assuming 1 time activation/last time check up is needed).
    Hmm, the one time activation check might be the issue. I know for a fact I had an offline game of Fallout 3 that I used when Verizon was fucking me over, but I guess I probably authenticated once.

    So yeah, we are a lot more fucked if the auth servers do go down.
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  13. #33
    What a mess. I'm glad to see the back of GFWL but I must own at least 10 games on that list and just have to keep my fingers crossed. I hope MS get a lot of blowback from this so that it serves as a warning to other publishers/distributors not to create these sorts of systems. But that's probably utopian thinking.

  14. #34
    Network Hub alset85's Avatar
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    Fallout 3 is rare because the implementation of GFWL made it completely optional. You only had to deal with it if you wanted to buy the DLC from there but why would you when Steam also had it. No one time activation. But again this one is the odd man out.
    Steam ID ; GFWL: alset85

  15. #35
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_strange View Post
    What a mess. I'm glad to see the back of GFWL but I must own at least 10 games on that list and just have to keep my fingers crossed. I hope MS get a lot of blowback from this so that it serves as a warning to other publishers/distributors not to create these sorts of systems. But that's probably utopian thinking.
    It's an interesting case if nothing else. It's going to be the first time that the servers will be switched off on a major non-publisher owned service where the games are still very much a going concern for publishers. Given that we're expecting a 2014 shut off point, and with a couple of the games having fairly high profile sequels due soon and still doing good numbers in Steam sales, it'll be quite telling who just abandons their games and who doesn't.

    Of course, outside of PC games, it's not new behaviour for MS. They've turned off fairly major services without giving a fuck in the past, Xbox Live had a good run in its original incarnation but that had to go, luckily most things existed elsewhere already in some form or another so the loss was single format but that's it and there's an entire music service they managed to bury the DRM servers for which fucked everyone's purchases entirely. I suspect in the long run, they're planning a similar treatment for XBLA-as-is because Xbox One will have separate achievements and no backwards compatibility so it's likely only a matter of time before that goes too. Probably a good 5 years though before they'll risk it but I certainly wouldn't trust them not to.
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
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  16. #36
    PlaysForSure.

  17. #37
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    Even if every current GFWL game becomes 100% unplayable in every fashion, wouldn't it still be worth it to never have another GFWL game again? I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.
    "What were we talking about? Pegasuses, pegasii, that's horses with wings. This motherf*cker got a sword that talks to him. Motherf*cker live in places that don't exist, it comes with a map. My God."

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by db1331 View Post
    Even if every current GFWL game becomes 100% unplayable in every fashion, wouldn't it still be worth it to never have another GFWL game again? I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.
    True, but what about uplay, steam or origin?

    Yeah, going to buying drm free* more often.

    *humble store and gog, what else?
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    It's an interesting case if nothing else. It's going to be the first time that the servers will be switched off on a major non-publisher owned service where the games are still very much a going concern for publishers. Given that we're expecting a 2014 shut off point, and with a couple of the games having fairly high profile sequels due soon and still doing good numbers in Steam sales, it'll be quite telling who just abandons their games and who doesn't.
    Which is why I'd be genuinely surprised if it actually happens this way, as I've seen nothing but rumour and speculation without confirmation as of yet, unless I've missed something.

    No harm in planning for the worst, and usually I'd say "not even Microsoft could be that stupid" but then there's the Xbone so maybe.

  20. #40
    Lesser Hivemind Node Drinking with Skeletons's Avatar
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    While I never encountered the most awful problems associated with GFWL (notably save-eating and inability to install) it was poorly supported, poorly explained, and generally just a pain in the ass.

    However, I want to give credit where credit is due: it had seamless offline capability. Assuming that you had managed to install the game, you were safe knowing that no internet outage was going to screw you over. Unlike Steam. This was especially notable when I lived in a small town with crappy internet service that often went down in the afternoon. Oh, I can't play any of my Steam games because I didn't put it into offline mode because I didn't expect to be offline, but I can play any non-Steam GFWL game that I want!

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