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  1. #1
    Activated Node Pengwertle's Avatar
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    Jedi Knight Series

    Everyone on this forum played a single game when they were small, but they played it to death, over, and over, and over. For me, this game was Jedi Knight II and Jedi Knight III. Except the sand worm, rancor, and mutant rancor missions. Man, those things were freaky. And also the small metal hamburger monsters in Outcast.

    Share your opinions on them. I tried the original Jedi Knight, but never finished it (because the sewer monster things were freaky), and stopped playing Dark Forces after the first level. My small child brain thought it was boring. Please tell me if these two are worth playing again, because I've pretty much gotten over the freaky monsters. Almost.

  2. #2
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    I replayed both Outcast and Academy recently and surprisingly, found Academy to be much better. Its open ended level design and more focused missions really brought across the whole "I'm a Jedi Peacekeeper" part really well. They improved on the saber mechanics from Outcast a little bit too but the normal lightsaber remains the best weapon. The dual sabers are way too spammy and the double ended one has terrible range.

    Jedi Knight remains the best one for me personally. It was utterly mind blowing for me at the time and its level design to this day is astonishing. Gigantic, massive, practically open world levels, taking on AT-STs, shit ton of stormtroopers, excellent force power mechanics. The puzzles made thematic sense and utilised the powers in an intelligent manner. If you weren't progressing it basically meant that you weren't looking up or not utilising the powers correctly. Best of all, the game allowed players the freedom to figure these things out yourself.

    The level design REALLY stands out for me. Its astonishing how much the influence of console FPS games has had on shooter level design, virtually all games are Belgian flatlands today, generally because pads don't allow for a smooth vertical axis.

    The level where you enter the Imperial Base? Yeah, never stops giving me goosebumps.

    And oh, the expansion pack: Mysteries of the Sith. That's an awesome game in itself. It was harder, better, had a motherfucking awesome sniper rifle, even more fantastic levels, arguably the best character from the Extended Universe in Mara Jade - the emperor's assassin to Luke Skywalker's wife? Hell yeah! - and was just a brilliant game. Both Jedi Knight and MotS went out of their way to really draw you into their corner of the Star Wars universe without letting the original trilogy cast a massive shadow on them.

    Oh, the concussion rifle. Godamn that was a beast of a weapon. Sadly nerfed into uselessness in Academy.

    Also, music. :>

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    I replaye academy last year and game is so medicore,even if you check reviews when game released they can confirm that.

  4. #4
    Network Hub Nahru's Avatar
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    I have played Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy. For me, the former has much better plot, characters and level design, while the latter has (much) better lightsaber combat system and... it is more fun for me to replay it from time to time. I have played singleplayer Outcast for about 5-6 times, while Academy - around 20 (?) times? I do not remember anymore. I enjoyed multiplayer with bots for both games, though I somehow miss Outcast's multiplayer more. I do not consider Academy to be bad, I have had lots of fun with it, but it has many flaws - many terrible and illogicaly designed levels and missions associated with them (Coruscant mission comes to mind at the moment as particularly jarring), the characters which are neither interesting nor believable anymore (what did they do to Tavion!?), and the plot I also consider mediocre at best. The "choice" You are given at one of the missions is ridiculous, as its consequences can only apply to the following one mission, so I consider it a wasted opportunity really. Oh, and the "dark side" ending is a cliffhanger.

    Still, despite its flaws and considering Outcast a better game overall, like I said, I still have played and enjoyed Academy many more times, primarily due to (in my opinion) very good lightsaber combat, which responds to player actions much better than in Outcast.

    There is also one more thing pertaining to Academy. While I have not played Outcast with any mods or total conversions, I have found one singleplayer total conversion of Academy well worth a try. The link: http://www.moddb.com/mods/escape-yavin-iv. In my opinion a brilliant total conversion. Of course, the story is a fan-fiction, but nonetheless is serviceable. There are 2 downloads, one is the first release of the mod Escape: Yavin IV (recommended) and the other is an expansion of the first release Escape: Yavin IV - The Lost Maps (not recommended). I have played through the first one and enjoyed it (I recommend "hard difficulty" which is named "Jedi Knight" I think), but the expansion (Escape: Yavin IV - The Lost Maps) has, from my experience, too many problems and bugs so I recommend avoiding it.
    Last edited by Nahru; 30-08-2013 at 08:15 AM.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    The story, levels, and set pieces are way better in Outcast. There was a real sense of awesomeness when you pulled out the lightsaber to fight alongside Luke Skywalker himself during a rare lightsaber fight. I get lightsaber burnout when I play academy, it's your solution to everything. In Jedi Outcast it's often more beneficial to use the guns and powers till the later levels. In fact the very first level after you get the lightsaber is this massive city full of long range snipers. Good luck reflecting that!

  6. #6
    Lesser Hivemind Node L_No's Avatar
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    For story, characters and setting I prefer Outcast, I must've played it more than a dozen times. I liked Academy too, mainly because of the variety in lightsabers and lightsaber styles. Both games hold up well today, in my opinion. I wish someone would make a new Jedi Knight game.

  7. #7
    Network Hub starmatt's Avatar
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    Dark Forces 2 was teh best Jedi Knight game. /thread
    Steam

  8. #8
    Lesser Hivemind Node Juan Carlo's Avatar
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    Jedi Academy has shit writing and plot, but it's more fun for me to replay just because the levels are so varied. Plus, duel welding.

    Jedi Outcast has waaaaay better writing and plot and is a fun game, but some of its early pre-lightasber levels can be a slog.

    Both are worth playing, though.

    Plus, I will actually occasionally fire up and play "Jedi Academy" CTF from time to time. That game has my favorite CTF ever as the combo of weapons, saber, force powers, and wall running add so much strategy and variety of play styles that most games lack. Plus, mines! There's nothing more fun than mining the entrances to the flag and waiting. It's a bit like if all the classes from Team Fortress were combined into one character. You can usually still find populated servers in the evenings, but I really wish that game were more popular.
    Last edited by Juan Carlo; 30-08-2013 at 09:22 AM.

  9. #9
    Yeah, Jedi Knight the first (Dark Forces 2) is the standout entry in the series along with the expansion by several longer than usual miles. Pretty much for all the reasons Khaz has stated.

    Its a sad thing but for my money that game still has the best level design for an FPS in any game to date.

  10. #10
    Lesser Hivemind Node Juan Carlo's Avatar
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    Oh, and yeah, Jedi Knight is unquestionably the best in the series. Its saber combat isn't as good, but it has some of the best level design of any game I've ever played. Massive, massive, levels where you sneak into ships via ducts or fuel pipes and all sorts of fun stuff like that. Plus, the level where you escape the crashing ship is awesome.

    Also, it has the best plot and as a nostalgic bonus, cheesy 1990s FMV. What more could you want?

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node Spacewalk's Avatar
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    Outcast is way better than Academy because it has Lando and Cloud City discussion over.

  12. #12
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    Academy has TWO Rancor levels, better lightsabers, battle against Boba Fett, Chewbacca as a sidekick, the Hoth base from Empire Strikes Back, Wedge Antilles doing bombing runs for you in his x-wing....

    Outcast doesn't even come close when it comes to fan service. So no, discussion not over.
    Last edited by khaz; 30-08-2013 at 10:00 AM.

  13. #13
    Network Hub starmatt's Avatar
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    But fan service sucks, discussion overer.
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  14. #14
    Lesser Hivemind Node
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    I was using Spacewalk's justification. So not overered.

    Jedi Knight is the best anyway.

  15. #15
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    The only way they could have crammed more fan service into Academy would have been turning Kyle Katarn into your long lost sister separated at birth.
    to wound the autumnal city.

  16. #16
    Lesser Hivemind Node Spacewalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khaz View Post
    battle against Boba Fett
    Really, it coulda been anyone under that helmet.

    Also, it's not Wedge if it isn't Denis Lawson.

  17. #17
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    I always preferred Jedi Knight 2. Academy put in the dual wielding blender kata, which virtually every npc in the game would fall for. The combat in Jedi Knight 2 was ridiculously well-balanced, and the bosses were great. I kept a save file at Desann just because the Desann fight is fun. Furthermore, Jedi Knight 2 is a good FPS just by itself. The first two levels work pretty well.

    Academy did have a fun glitch where it would remember your character's choice in lightsaber after you beat the game, letting you use a dual-bladed in one hand and a normal in the other.

  18. #18
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    My favourite thing in Outcast/Academy was loading up the console, spawning a whole bunch of Lukes and Dessanns and watching them spaz out.

    Or awesome stuff like this:


  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    I always preferred Jedi Knight 2. Academy put in the dual wielding blender kata, which virtually every npc in the game would fall for. The combat in Jedi Knight 2 was ridiculously well-balanced, and the bosses were great. I kept a save file at Desann just because the Desann fight is fun. Furthermore, Jedi Knight 2 is a good FPS just by itself. The first two levels work pretty well.
    There were a few interesting ways to beat Desann. Speed 3 was probably the cheapest. I had a save file just before that through the training area where I and the rest of the Jedi band together for a lightsaber rumble, and you can get to temple entrance with a party of knights or noone. The end melee of Academy is equally thrilling. Stand back and watch a couple of times - sometimes Jedi win, sometimes the Sith win. Sometimes people have heroic last stands, and sometimes they just get chopped down in one hit because of their own stupidity or bad luck.
    Last edited by Drake Sigar; 30-08-2013 at 12:25 PM.

  20. #20
    Lesser Hivemind Node L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    I kept a save file at Desann just because the Desann fight is fun.
    I did the same with the fight with Tavion.

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