Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 54
  1. #21
    Also thought that the handling of that article was a lowpoint for RPS. I hate the fact that RPS writers think that they are the final arbiters of what can and should be released and that they can bully small developers into making changes to their game because they don't approve. The hostile and combative tone of the interview was putrid. If we allow critics to dictate what artists can choose to express we'll lose our souls. I sympathise with rape victims but we cannot let a small group dictate what the rest of us are allowed to see because they might be offended.

    Locking the comments in that article because most people disagreed with the RPS consensus was also pretty low. The comments thread is full of measured reasoning from people and there was a lot of high class debate on the topic. Most of it critical of RPS but then again RPS deserved to be called out in that case.

    I personally hope that the sexual assault stays in the game. It is fostering good debate on the nature of violence and sexual violence and how the two are percieved in the context of the medium. If we are ever going to elevate gaming beyond toys for kids we need to be encouraging anything that makes us question ourselves and our hobby.

  2. #22
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    6,120
    I think its hard to judge comment sections especially this one, because it was actively moderated. so the really horrid stuff you might not even have seen.

    But I dont know. I do disagree that RPS isnt entitled to an opinion.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  3. #23
    Pinions are good. Bullying small developers into removing content from their game because you have an axe to grind is completely different. RPS has always had a myopic view towards misogany in gaming but that interview took it to its hysterical extreme.

  4. #24
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    People's Republic of Germany
    Posts
    2,357
    I don't know what it is about these articles but for some reason they seem to attract a lot of MRA, redpill and the gods know what other scum. If you've never seen one of these articles pre moderation, it's bad. Really bad.
    to wound the autumnal city.

  5. #25
    Obscure Node
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    What you don't see is all the comments presumably deleted because they were downright nasty. There reaches a point where I'd rather the writers spent time writing than moderating particularly problematic threads.
    Ahh yes that could well be the case. Fair enough then. The article itself was still a disgrace.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobsLawnService View Post
    Also thought that the handling of that article was a lowpoint for RPS. I hate the fact that RPS writers think that they are the final arbiters of what can and should be released and that they can bully small developers into making changes to their game because they don't approve. The hostile and combative tone of the interview was putrid. If we allow critics to dictate what artists can choose to express we'll lose our souls. I sympathise with rape victims but we cannot let a small group dictate what the rest of us are allowed to see because they might be offended.

    Locking the comments in that article because most people disagreed with the RPS consensus was also pretty low. The comments thread is full of measured reasoning from people and there was a lot of high class debate on the topic. Most of it critical of RPS but then again RPS deserved to be called out in that case.

    I personally hope that the sexual assault stays in the game. It is fostering good debate on the nature of violence and sexual violence and how the two are percieved in the context of the medium. If we are ever going to elevate gaming beyond toys for kids we need to be encouraging anything that makes us question ourselves and our hobby.
    This. I consider myself a bit of an artist (not a good one), I'm a painter and graphic designer on occasions. I find this sort of peer pressure on artists to self censor highly worrying, especially when it is coming from the same crowd who smugly berate FOX news.

    I think if the game was out and the full context of the scene was there then it would be fair to have a discussion on whether the scene should have been in the game, but to take a preview and (almost) demand the removal of part of the game based on that preview is really really unfair on the creator.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lagoon West, Vermilion Sands
    Posts
    4,370
    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I think its hard to judge comment sections especially this one, because it was actively moderated. so the really horrid stuff you might not even have seen.
    Without pictures this post is useless tbh.

    You have to judge a comments thread on what's there. That certain people have a Stalinist approach to addressing criticism to the extent that they'll happily delete whole sections that for whatever reason don't align with their own views is really beside the point.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

    Probable Replicant

    *blush* I'm flattered by the attention boys, but please let's not make the thread about liddle old me


    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

  7. #27
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kaira-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oulu, Finland
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by BobsLawnService View Post
    I hate the fact that RPS writers think that they are the final arbiters of what can and should be released and that they can bully small developers into making changes to their game because they don't approve
    I didn't get that from the article. At all. They questioned the choice and asked for reasons and motivations - as should be done. If questioning is "bullying to make changes" then this world is fucked.

  8. #28
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    6,120
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Without pictures this post is useless tbh.

    You have to judge a comments thread on what's there. That certain people have a Stalinist approach to addressing criticism to the extent that they'll happily delete whole sections that for whatever reason don't align with their own views is really beside the point.
    likewise for proving they were overmoderating, could use some proof.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lagoon West, Vermilion Sands
    Posts
    4,370
    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    likewise for proving they were overmoderating, could use some proof.
    I'm not the one here saying things are missing from that particular comments thread. However I have actively witnessed over moderation before when comments have disappeared wholesale in other articles, despite the fact that there were a lot of articulate responses to them that were still pertinent to the overall discussion. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.

    Still given you're asking me to 'prove' an absence I think you're best stepping away from the computer for a bit.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 06-09-2013 at 01:02 PM.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

    Probable Replicant

    *blush* I'm flattered by the attention boys, but please let's not make the thread about liddle old me


    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

  10. #30
    A lot of people who have commented have done so about the incredibly hostile and aggressive tone of the interview. The use of ovely emotive language language in the intro was also uncalled for and was clearly meant to invoke a negative reaction and portray the developers in a negative light.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    You have to judge a comments thread on what's there.
    We don't have to judge the comments thread at all. Not really our job. What would have been nice was some reasoning explaining why it was closed so we didn't have to speculate.

    I do think it's possible to read a level of aggression into the questioning that may or may not be there, and for that reason I don't think it's a great interview, but at the same time I don't see this horrendous RPS bullying that some people are seeing.

  12. #32
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    35
    I've read and re-read that article, and I just cannot see where the accusations of bullying are coming from. Here's how I see it.
    - Developer releases a demo of their game
    - Some people find inclusion of scene in game offensive
    - RPS asks developer for their view and whether they are changing anything
    - Developer explains that the demo is not fully representative of the characters involved in the scene in question
    - RPS asks if they are planning on including that scene in the full game
    - Developer says that they feel that there is good reason for the scene, but that they will re-examine their justification to make sure.

    At no point did RPS demand that it be removed, and at no point did the developer say it was going to be removed.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lagoon West, Vermilion Sands
    Posts
    4,370
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    We don't have to judge the comments thread at all. Not really our job.
    /facepalm

    I do think it's possible to read a level of aggression into the questioning that may or may not be there, and for that reason I don't think it's a great interview, but at the same time I don't see this horrendous RPS bullying that some people are seeing.
    Well your ability to not see things is pretty much legendary Dean. I think anytime there are these sort of confronting articles it's always a case of bullying developers to some degree. Like the CDProjekt Cyberpunk trailer thing and everyone getting uppity about the girl in a dress.

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...s/#more-141012

    The girl in a dress is a problem? Really? To whom exactly? Beyond the small minority of people who read sexism & misogyny into absolutely everything like zealots on a mission? Those people? Yeah you should totally listen to those guys and allow them to dictate your design process.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 06-09-2013 at 01:35 PM.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

    Probable Replicant

    *blush* I'm flattered by the attention boys, but please let's not make the thread about liddle old me


    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Terra Australis Incognita
    Posts
    4,438
    Quote Originally Posted by BobsLawnService View Post
    The use of ovely emotive language language in the intro was also uncalled for and was clearly meant to invoke a negative reaction and portray the developers in a negative light.
    RPS are on some crusade to make developers answer for their transgressions, of course they're going to open with something like that. And as much as I don't agree with it, they're free to do that. None of this exists in a vacuum of opinion after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbster View Post
    At no point did RPS demand that it be removed, and at no point did the developer say it was going to be removed.
    They don't, but the opening and some of the questions are laced with criticism implying it should go, or at least that it was wrong of them to include it. The first question has the line what are you doing about it? Not are you going to do something about it, nor what's your opinion on the backlash but a very specific what are you going to do question. It's not until around 3/4 through that the questioning changes a bit when the dev digs in their heels a little bit and insists that the inclusion did have a point.

    It seems more like an inquisition to determine a guilty intent, rather than an attempt to dig into the reasons why it was there. Fortunately the dev answered honestly and explained the intent, instead of just going "Well we don't think there's anything wrong with it..."
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    /facepalm
    I just mean we can't judge why a thread has been closed or not as we haven't see the whole thing.

    Well your ability to not see things is pretty much legendary Dean. I think anytime there are these sort of confronting articles it's always a case of bullying developers to some degree.
    If you mean I give the RPS writers the benefit of the doubt on this sort of thing, yes. Because if I just assumed all the writers were nasty bullies I wouldn't read the site to start with.

  16. #36
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    6,120
    but kads, youre asking me to prove an absence as well. Im pointing out that it could be either way; either there was moderation and it was necessary. Or there was no moderation, and they overreacted.

    Theres no way to find out, really.

    And yes, I know they polarise with their moderation sometimes, but I have no proof of either, really.

    And its nathan, not John this time. ;D
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,535
    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    but kads, youre asking me to prove an absence as well. Im pointing out that it could be either way; either there was moderation and it was necessary. Or there was no moderation, and they overreacted.

    Theres no way to find out, really.
    Well, they could have just said either "we're closing comments as we've had to moderate tons of awful stuff" or "we're closing comments because we're expecting to have to moderate loads of awful stuff" or "John Walker here, I'm closing comments to wind up Kadayi"

  18. #38
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    6,120
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Well, they could have just said either "we're closing comments as we've had to moderate tons of awful stuff" or "we're closing comments because we're expecting to have to moderate loads of awful stuff" or "John Walker here, I'm closing comments to wind up Kadayi"
    but they dont owe anyone an explanation really. neither does anyone owe RPS anything. (the developers of HM2, for example)
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lagoon West, Vermilion Sands
    Posts
    4,370
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I just mean we can't judge why a thread has been closed or not as we haven't see the whole thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    but kads, youre asking me to prove an absence as well. Im pointing out that it could be either way; either there was moderation and it was necessary. Or there was no moderation, and they overreacted.
    “Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.” - Ludwig Wittgenstein

    You have to work with what is before you.

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Well, they could have just said either "we're closing comments as we've had to moderate tons of awful stuff" or "we're closing comments because we're expecting to have to moderate loads of awful stuff" or "John Walker here, I'm closing comments to wind up Kadayi"
    Well they probably should add a reason for the closure.

    but they dont owe anyone an explanation really. neither does anyone owe RPS anything. (the developers of HM2, for example)
    What's with the belligerence? Sure they don't have to do diddly squat, but it would be nice and at least help people understand the 'why'. I don't think that's a war crime tbh.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 06-09-2013 at 02:34 PM.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

    Probable Replicant

    *blush* I'm flattered by the attention boys, but please let's not make the thread about liddle old me


    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    “Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.” - Ludwig Wittgenstein

    You have to work with what is before you.
    Does that include previous statements that when threads have been closed for comments, it's because they've required excessive moderation of offensive comments? Or that the regular RPS approach is to moderate first, then close comments later, so therefore one can assume that moderation was happening before the closure?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •