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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Our Many Bigots and Idiots

    I saw and see two solutions concerning the mentioned individuals: Bans start being doled out to such folks, since they've been acknowledged as existing on our forums, or the restrictions lifted on mob rule so we can shout them down ourselves. With the latter expressly forbidden by Rossignol, the former must be accomplished.

    I see Moho has been banned. That's a start. But Moho isn't the only one.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  2. #2
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I really see your point but the problem is if we start naming people here, it would most definitely come across as bastardly unexcellent.

    Either way, please please PLEASE use the report function, and weve figured out a system with the Grand Mister Rossignol to respond to arsehats. so report, and we'll pass on the word.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  3. #3
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    Damn.

    I thought shouting down misogynists was what John Walker wanted me to do.

    I'm confused.

  4. #4
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    yes but John is not the man in charge around these parts.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I thought shouting down misogynists was what John Walker wanted me to do.
    No one has said "Don't shout people down"... The problem is personal insults and attacks. As Jim said (emphasis mine)...

    Nalano and others may "reserve the right" to call our many bigots and idiots names, but I do not give them permission to do so. That is the key issue here. It is not about how you want to behave, it's down to what the permitted behaviour for this space actually is. It is not insults or personal attacks
    If you don't agree with someone, argue against their position, but not their person. Compare...

    "You're a shit-stain and what you said is wrong, and here's why..."

    and

    "What you said is wrong, and here's why..."

    Is the first any better than the second, because it contains an insult? I'm going to go with no. We can still argue, debate, call people out on their opinions we don't agree with etc. But none of those things require personal insults and attacks, do they? No, they don't.

    Again, as Jim says...

    It is a very simple rule. I am not sure why there has been so much trouble following it.
    Last edited by Unaco; 10-09-2013 at 04:40 PM.
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    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
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    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
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    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    I don't see any substantive difference in "you are a pile of dogshit" and "your beliefs are a pile of dogshit" when it's patently clear that bans are not a reformative or rehabilitative practice and we cannot separate people from their views on a discussion forum. By all intents and purposes, people on these fora are no more than the summation of their views, and that is the manner in which we interact with one another.

    Moho did not become a better person when he was banned the first time for his "niggers are just niggers" comment. He still holds those views, and more besides. When you get right down to it, while it's Moho's views that caused his ban, we didn't ban his views: We banned Moho.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    No one has said "Don't shout people down"... The problem is personal insults and attacks. As Jim said (emphasis mine)...

    If you don't agree with someone, argue against their position, but not their person. Compare...

    "You're a shit-stain and what you said is wrong, and here's why..."

    and

    "What you said is wrong, and here's why..."
    How about just "You're a shit-stain."

    It depends what we're trying to do here? Honestly I find reasoning with them to try and make them change their minds is pointless and just does what Jim said he wants to avoid: gives them more of a platform to spout their bile.

    If we just don't want people like that on the forum then telling them to get lost and not engaging with them seems more useful, and is certainly the approach the RPS writers seem to be taking on the main site more and more these days.

    I mean the whole point of a lot of the articles on the site is that we shouldn't shut up about this stuff, and that we should call out bigots as bigots, but is calling someone a bigot a personal insult? It probably is, even if they are one.

    But by not calling that guy out as a bigot, I'm not really being excellent to the rest of society. It's a tough one, to be honest. But then, that's been my problem with a lot of the RPS feminism coverage: there's a lot of shouting and noise-making, but no attempt to let us know what the hell we're meant to do to make a difference, other that feel bad about looking at boobs in The Witcher.

  8. #8
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    fyi, this thread is getting locked. Just because threads like these tend to get abused to fling insults at people, I think we should just have one thread where its ok to have insults, and just isolate it from all other parts of the forums.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    But by not calling that guy out as a bigot, I'm not really being excellent to the rest of society. It's a tough one, to be honest. But then, that's been my problem with a lot of the RPS feminism coverage: there's a lot of shouting and noise-making, but no attempt to let us know what the hell we're meant to do to make a difference, other that feel bad about looking at boobs in The Witcher.
    One would hope we can promote an atmosphere where bigoted views do not have cache. What I see on RPS forums as a very notable dearth of female voices, and of the women I've tried to recruit for this forum, their reticence is universal: They do not want to share space with those whose views are so vile, especially if they must be cordial to them. There are simply better ways to spend their time.

    This concept of "excellence" as it is currently enforced is only superficial, and works to cover the inherent ugliness below. If this is to be the excellent forum it's purported to be, those roots must be pulled, because they've clearly made themselves at home to the detriment of the demographics of the site already.

    You shy from naming-and-shaming, Quanta, but neither you nor the rest have answered the original question: How and when will you remove this element? The insults will all but disappear when there is nothing left worth insulting.
    Last edited by Nalano; 10-09-2013 at 05:47 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  10. #10
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    well as soon as we spot more idiocy, then we heat up the death star, so to say.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    well as soon as we spot more idiocy, then we heat up the death star, so to say.
    My only issue with that is that, by all evidence, you're not looking. That's a royal you: All of you. Hell, to reiterate, Berzee is pointedly not looking for such. Unless you're going to state a reversal of policy here, I don't really have much cause to trust you at all.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  12. #12
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I can only repeat to please use the report function.

    I only get the PS2 and STO ones, sadly, but we have a shiny new spool up the deathray option.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I can only repeat to please use the report function.

    I only get the PS2 and STO ones, sadly, but we have a shiny new spool up the deathray option.
    And Berzee's "I don't look at worldview?" How would reporting help in that situation?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  14. #14
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I.. dont know. But we are definitely having a discussion about worldview, and the conclusion was: report them to us, we report them to the deathstar aka Mr Rossignols Flying Castle.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  15. #15
    Banned
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    Take it up with Jim. His forum, his rules, his mods.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I see Moho has been banned. That's a start. But Moho isn't the only one.
    There are people I'd ban that the Hivemind might not, but there are a few I'm legitimately shocked have gone on so far. Heck some people I am tolerating as simply "aggressive/enthusiastic" might be on the list.

    *braces for the suggestion he is one of the ban priority*
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    If Cthulu doesn't deserve to be banned then I don't know who does.
    steam: sketch

  18. #18
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    About time that guy got booted. Not that he won't be back, though. What was the final straw this time? I seem to have missed it. I mean, he has something negative to say about every single thing. It must really suck to be that dude.
    "What were we talking about? Pegasuses, pegasii, that's horses with wings. This motherf*cker got a sword that talks to him. Motherf*cker live in places that don't exist, it comes with a map. My God."

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And Berzee's "I don't look at worldview?" How would reporting help in that situation?
    *kicks dirt with toe* OkFineI'llLookAtWorldviewsGOSH.

    After hearing Mr. Rossignol's latest treatise on excellence (which I look forward to possessing in leatherbound volumes by this Christmastime at the latest, surely) I am quite willing to turn my baleful glare* upon the hearts and minds of men. I will do my internet-job. ^_^

    *It is a sort of informational mini-glare that mostly just tags things as potentially loathsome, but it's still pretty baleful everyone.
    Last edited by Berzee; 10-09-2013 at 08:14 PM.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  20. #20
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    So the lesson learned here is, and not I think the one that was supposed to be learned:

    Fling tons of insults until the issue becomes so heated that the powers that be are forced to implement a change.



    Now, the first application of this lesson must be QuantaCat. Sunglasses on the internet? Unacceptable. Nalano! To the flame cave!

    No but seriously, I will be quite interested to see what goes down re: the new ban policy. Time to go get my hammer proof armor.

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