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  1. #1
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    Transparency and accountability

    Something I see happening here that I don't see elsewhere is that often things are moderated without a trace. Elsewhere moderators often censor only parts of a post with a [snip] or [redacted], replace an offensive post with [moderated] or [the user was banned for this post], etc. It's also common practice to end a locked thread with a post stating why the thread was locked.

    These things don't take too much effort, since you're there moderating already anyway, and do tend to help discussions about and appreciation of moderation.

    Also, it seems like a good idea for a site that takes publishers to task for using 'the silence' to not use it themselves. ;)

  2. #2
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Jim has expressed interest in keeping his ninja assassin status, so the mods are the ones you should ask.

    that being said, fuck transparency. everyone gets notified why theyre banned or warned. dont quite see why make it public?
    also, few posts are deleted or changed. if anything a thread gets locked, and those usually get an explanation.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    that being said, fuck transparency. everyone gets notified why theyre banned or warned. dont quite see why make it public?
    Beyond morbid curiosity on the part of other forum goers, seeing that someone has been banned for certain behaviour can help discourage others from repeating that behaviour. Of course the down-side is it can encourage people moaning about other people not being banned for acting in the same way...

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Of course the down-side is it can encourage people moaning about other people not being banned for acting in the same way...
    And those people have a point. The only thing worse than closed-door moderation is capricious closed-door moderation.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And those people have a point. The only thing worse than closed-door moderation is capricious closed-door moderation.
    But then it gets tricky as you've pointed out. With a lot of people you can't say "this user was banned for this post", it's more "this was the post that broke the horse's back, but they've been unpleasant across the boards for months".

    You and I have both probably been less excellent in one post somewhere than the post which finally got Moho banned.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    But then it gets tricky as you've pointed out. With a lot of people you can't say "this user was banned for this post", it's more "this was the post that broke the horse's back, but they've been unpleasant across the boards for months".
    And you can then say, "this was the post that broke the horse's back, but they've been unpleasant across the boards for months." Saying this allows people to determine whether they agree with your ruling. Not saying this sends the message that you don't expect people to agree with your ruling.

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    You and I have both probably been less excellent in one post somewhere than the post which finally got Moho banned.
    I've called people shits and I will continue to call people shits.

    I do not, however, make racist or sexist comments, nor do I espouse bigoted viewpoints.

    I don't see how you could treat these two equally.
    Last edited by Nalano; 11-09-2013 at 04:12 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    And you can then say, "this was the post that broke the horse's back, but they've been unpleasant across the boards for months." Saying this allows people to determine whether they agree with your ruling. Not saying this sends the message that you don't expect people to agree with your ruling.
    Or that you don't give a shit if people agree, which is also bad.

    Keeping as much moderation info as possible public is essential to keeping the moderation trustworthy.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  8. #8
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    but the moderation is minimal! moderators have fuck all powers, and the ones they have, they hardly use. And thats not a promise, thats stuff thats happened upto now.

    To be fair, its jim thats usually absolute and opaque with his moderation, and he's the reason the board exists at all. (the rest of RPS wouldnt touch the forums with a stick, for the best (for us that is))

    Either way, its about three months of moderation? or is it a bit more? I dont know, either way, I think we are getting to a good spot here, with the worldview moderation.
    Last edited by QuantaCat; 12-09-2013 at 12:00 PM.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post

    To be fair, its jim thats usually absolute and opaque with his moderation, and he's the reason the board exists at all. (the rest of RPS wouldnt touch the forums with a stick, for the best (for us that is))
    Which always baffled me given that, while it's far from perfect, the forums are still one of the nicest and most interesting places to discuss games on the internet and in their minimally-moderated form are still 10x more pleasant than the heavily moderated comment threads...

  10. #10
    Lesser Hivemind Node L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Which always baffled me given that, while it's far from perfect, the forums are still one of the nicest and most interesting places to discuss games on the internet and in their minimally-moderated form are still 10x more pleasant than the heavily moderated comment threads...
    This so much. We should appreciate what we have too.

  11. #11
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I know, but still, and youll agree with me on this (because we have been talking about this, you and I) the moderation is necessary. Sometimes it takes more than just a nuke from orbit.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I know, but still, and youll agree with me on this (because we have been talking about this, you and I) the moderation is necessary. Sometimes it takes more than just a nuke from orbit.
    Oh we need some moderation for sure. I just meant compared to the comments threads, this is the RPS community done right, and I don't really get why the writers don't put more effort into cultivating this place than fire-fighting the comment threads.

    Although that said, were this place more popular it might get filled with the reprobates that hang around the comments... which, well that comes back to Nalano's point: with one or two exceptions, when one of them does turn up, they don't tend to stick around much, and I don't think they're being banned, I think they're just being chased off

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    The way I see it is simple: Jim's basically god, in that he created the forum, laid out its commandments, and then promptly fucked off.

    This recent imposition of mods is something more like bishops and clergy: Their power may ostensibly come from on high, but they're corrupt politicians and power brokers first. Anthile practically begged to be mod, and you, QuantaCat, still play as if you have a direct hotline to our lord, when your jurisdiction and powers are slim indeed.

    One would imagine that if you wanted to establish your legitimacy, you'd be as open and transparent as was humanly possible.
    Last edited by Nalano; 12-09-2013 at 02:51 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  14. #14
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    ...and you, QuantaCat, still play as if you have a direct hotline to our lord, when your jurisdiction and powers are slim indeed.
    True. I think my problem is that I care and assume to know how its supposed to be AND have some kind of rapport with Jim.

    Either way, yes, I'm full of it, but I think it's come to a nice result..? I guess we're about to find out.

    I can see three endings for this judging worldview thing:
    1) nothing happens.
    2) powermad moderators destroy the goodwill of the forum.
    3) the disruptive fucktard elements are really removed, and we keep a balance, nurturing discussion but keeping the worse elements out of it.

    I hope for the third, but it could be either one of them.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    2) powermad moderators destroy the goodwill of the forum.
    Of which you are a problem. "I think my problem is that I care," spare me.

    I have an ego the size of Kenya, so I know what big egos are, but I don't purport to have powers beyond my station. Your grand vizier style needs to be kept in check, and your "fuck transparency" attitude is deeply unsettling considering your sycophantic ways.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  16. #16
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Of which you are a problem. "I think my problem is that I care," spare me.

    I have an ego the size of Kenya, so I know what big egos are, but I don't purport to have powers beyond my station. Your grand vizier style needs to be kept in check, and your "fuck transparency" attitude is deeply unsettling considering your sycophantic ways.
    no, you cant separate these two bits: "my problem is that I care and assume to know how its supposed to be"

    That generally isnt a good sign.

    Also, I usually am for transparency, but in this case transparency would be just for the sake of so mistakes can be undone, no?
    Since only Jim can do any banning, I dont think its that urgent or necessary. Maybe in the near future, who knows.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    no, you cant separate these two bits: "my problem is that I care and assume to know how its supposed to be"
    Your problem is your attempt to be moderator of the forum, not your little corner of it. Your problem is how you set yourself up as liaison with the Powers That Be when we don't need a translator. Your problem is your power-mongering.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    By far the best part about these discussions is that once or twice a day something in them reminds me of some happy moment or character from The Nameless Mod.
    Last edited by Berzee; 12-09-2013 at 06:21 PM.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  19. #19
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    When Jim says we don't need mods anymore, we can handle spam ourselves, I'm the first to grab my coat. Deleting spam is not the kind of stuff that gets me up in the morning and I really don't need your constant attempts at character assassination either.

  20. #20
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    I have seens forums where moderation left back these type of hints, and I think these forums are worse because of it. Is like every time somebody dies, we let the corpse to rot and attract worms in the place he die.

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