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  1. #61
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Nalano's customary belligerence was utterly absent from a number of recently closed threads, and we've yet to have an explanation as to why several of them were closed.
    Oh he might of dialed back from calling people mofos directly (that lesson in civility seems to have been learnt at least), but when we're talking about a person who start ups a discussion thread with the title of 'Our Many Bigots and Idiots' I'm not entirely sure excellence towards the community is on display. Are we as a forum community really plagued with many bigots and idiots? Certainly I'd agree that there are some people who aren't exactly forces for good at times, but I'd say they are the exception rather than the rule for this forum. It seems to me that as far as our mutual friend is concerned anyone who disagrees with him falls into one of those two camps. From that very thread. -

    I don't see any substantive difference in "you are a pile of dogshit" and "your beliefs are a pile of dogshit" when it's patently clear that bans are not a reformative or rehabilitative practice and we cannot separate people from their views on a discussion forum. By all intents and purposes, people on these fora are no more than the summation of their views, and that is the manner in which we interact with one another.
    Does 'dogshit' serve a quantifiable purpose in either case? In the former it's an insult and in the latter it's an inarticulate blanket dismissal. Colour me crazy, but the intention of the thread seemed less about improving the forum and more about petitioning for the site rules regarding excellence to be thrown out the window presumably so our mutual friend can spend all day happily deploying the former ad infinitum without ever having to formalize the latter. Our mutual friend is big on belligerence and being obstinate (consider his response above), but doesn't exactly have a great record at putting together cohesive arguments a lot of the time. Thus the seemingly endless haranguing in this particular sub-forum as to what is wrong with RPS on every level.

    I get the impression the long term aim/ambition seems to be to angle for a perm ban so presumably our mutual friend can slouch off somewhere else in the internets and play the 'RPS..bunch of assholes' martyr card. Because truth of the matter is Jim's not going to change the rules, and in all honestly I don't see why he should given the vast majority of people who post here are more than capable of following them.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 15-09-2013 at 11:35 AM.
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  2. #62
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    I will try again.

    The OP want "transparency", but what he really want is a crystal trashcan, so the disgusting bits of rotting food are visible from the outside.


    I vote no.
    Abandoned PC gaming for good. Now rest in a better place. psn:Teikman

  3. #63
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    The OP want "transparency", but what he really want is a crystal trashcan, so the disgusting bits of rotting food are visible from the outside.
    Rubbish. While I certainly appreciate that rather excellent analogy, that's not what's being asked here. There's a difference between wanting to see the trash and wanting to know why it was binned. The locked threads are there for everyone to see as it is - your 'crystal trashcan' is more or less what we have right now, except in some cases we don't know why it was binned in the first place.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  4. #64
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Rubbish. While I certainly appreciate that rather excellent analogy, that's not what's being asked here. There's a difference between wanting to see the trash and wanting to know why it was binned. The locked threads are there for everyone to see as it is - your 'crystal trashcan' is more or less what we have right now, except in some cases we don't know why it was binned in the first place.
    Presently it's like an episode of the twilight zone where some strange force is causing whole cities to end up hermetically sealed and frozen inside giant, polished, diamond enclosures. Visible but lifeless and isolated. We don't know why. We can only hope that God will save us, or The Others will offer a quick death when they finally come for us, and that our frozen last moments will be peaceful ones.

    Thus the seemingly endless haranguing in this particular sub-forum as to what is wrong with RPS on every level.
    Nalano is by no means the only one concerned with the goings on in, for example, the WvT thread.

    Whether belligerent attitudes serve to ameliorate or worsen said goings on is a topic for another thread (a closed thread, as it happens). This thread is about unexplained thread closures. Most recently, said unexplained closures have resulted in a mixed-message from above: we care about this sort of issue, so let us know when it's happening and we'll take care of it ... but don't ask for details or talk about this issue. Because ... we care? I don't know. It's kinda weird.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 15-09-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Presently it's like an episode of the twilight zone where some strange force is causing whole cities to end up hermetically sealed and frozen inside giant, polished, diamond enclosures.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peace_War
    Abandoned PC gaming for good. Now rest in a better place. psn:Teikman

  6. #66
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Heeheehee. Well played. Also that seems like cool story.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  7. #67
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    Thing is, this place isn't actually that bad. But RPS have set themselves a higher standard with their very forthright views on feminist issues especially.

    But it's kinda embarrassing for RPS to do 'hard-hitting' interviews and super-strong opinion pieces on what games developers are doing wrong when they can't even be bothered to clean up their own backyard.

    I get that they don't have time, but that's also the reason why you can't be gay in TOR online, or why lots of games don't include female PC options.

  8. #68
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    Progressive people and movements tend to spend a lot more time talking than doing and a lot more time criticizing than solving. Its just the nature of the ideology.

    Its pretty simple to find a game and point out how it has anti-women tendencies, because that's pretty much all games due to the environment they were designed in.

    Its a lot more actual work to devise new rules of human interaction to attempt to solve a flaw in our current rules than to just point out said flaw. Imagine all the unintended consequences and setbacks, all the anger at the disruption of the status quo, the possible financial losses.

  9. #69
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    Its pretty simple to find a game and point out how it has anti-women tendencies, because that's pretty much all games due to the environment they were designed in.

    Its a lot more actual work to devise new rules of human interaction to attempt to solve a flaw in our current rules than to just point out said flaw. Imagine all the unintended consequences and setbacks, all the anger at the disruption of the status quo, the possible financial losses.
    None of that matters in this case though, unless your saying the staff here are being paid by publishers or devs? ad revenue would equal its self out.
    Last edited by tradaa; 16-09-2013 at 10:08 AM.

  10. #70
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    So Anita Sarkeesian's work is something else we're not allowed to discuss now?

    There was some awful stuff going on in that thread (and the initial post was combative) but why not just delete the nasty posts and ban the people that posted them?!

    Closing that thread basically conceded the ground to the dick heads. They've had their say, it's still there for everyone to see, yet now no-one can call them out or tell them they're wrong.

    The bigots have made their point! Quick, close the thread before someone points out the inevitable flaws in their arguments and character!

    Honestly at this point I'm pretty much convinced the moderators are on the side of the assholes and want to protect their ability to make their points as much as possible. Because that's what they're doing.
    Last edited by deano2099; 16-09-2013 at 12:36 PM.

  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    I'm willing to concede that since Anthille can't ban people, he locked the thread and left all the unbelievable stupid crap there so that Jim could see it and take action. I wish he'd said that this was the case, though, and yeah, I do hope this is just the first step.

  12. #72
    Vector Jams O'Donnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    So Anita Sarkeesian's work is something else we're not allowed to discuss now?

    There was some awful stuff going on in that thread (and the initial post was combative) but why not just delete the nasty posts and ban the people that posted them?!
    I guess that sometimes you have to take off and nuke the site from orbit.

    That said, I suspect that if someone wanted to make a new thread to discuss the topic in a civilised manner nobody would object (until the arses make themselves known, but arses making themselves known just provides targets for the fully armed and operational death ray).
    Last edited by Jams O'Donnell; 16-09-2013 at 01:01 PM.

  13. #73
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    I wouldn't exactly call a thread titled "Anita Sarkeesian is "not a real gamer"?" a discussion on the works of Anita Sarkessian. It's not that there can't be a thread about that but these kind of debates always attract a certain type of clientele. I suppose we could re-open the Tropes vs. Women thread but it has such a long history that it might just be better to start from scratch.

    That said, bans always have to be approved by the hivemind so there is always going to be a delay between what we (the moderators) do and the hivemind acting on it but I can assure that measures have been initiated.


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  14. #74
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    But until the arseholes are banned, they're just going to come back.

    Can I ask a question of the posters here? I know not everyone is comfortable with Anthille as a mod, but even so, would you be willing to go for letting Anthille have the power to ban people for 48 hours, until Jim can review and decide if it should be permanent or not?

    Let's face it, the worst thing that will happen is you get banned for 48 hours, and honestly I'm fine with not posting here for two days if I get wrongly banned if it means we can sort this crap out?

    Surely the only reason Anthille wasn't allowed to do temp bans in the first place is that 'we' might get upset about it. But I'm far more bothered by threads being closed and discussion being stifled than I am the chance of me not being able to post for a couple of days because of a false positive.

    Does anyone really have a problem with that?

  15. #75
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jams O'Donnell View Post
    That said, I suspect that if someone wanted to make a new thread to discuss the topic in a civilised manner nobody would object (until the arses make themselves known, but arses making themselves known just provides targets for the fully armed and operational death ray).
    And that will be closed, too, because there is a two day delay on bans but locks are instantaneous.

    See the problem?
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  16. #76
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Like Dean not a big fan of closed threads myself. Personally I'd rather see some active degree of enforcement of excellence in heated discussions when they boil over from simple disagreement on point into personal abuse ('you are a shitstain') spurious accusations ('shill on') borderline hysteria ('IM SO MAD IM SHOUTING!!!) or incessant second guessing ('So what you're really saying is that Hitler was right and the Jews have to go?') none of which contribute anything meaningful to a thread, and are not behaviours that should be encouraged.
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    I wouldn't exactly call a thread titled "Anita Sarkeesian is "not a real gamer"?" a discussion on the works of Anita Sarkessian. It's not that there can't be a thread about that but these kind of debates always attract a certain type of clientele. I suppose we could re-open the Tropes vs. Women thread but it has such a long history that it might just be better to start from scratch.
    Even had the thread been a positive discussion on the latest video, the trolls would still arrive.

    That said, bans always have to be approved by the hivemind so there is always going to be a delay between what we (the moderators) do and the hivemind acting on it but I can assure that measures have been initiated.
    Could you maybe question with the hivemind why they think that closing a thread is a 'lesser' power than a temp ban? A temp ban stops one or two people talking about a subject, a closed thread stops everyone discussing it. I think a thread closure is a far stronger measure than a ban and I don't get why people don't see that.

    Sure, I could just open a new thread but where does that end? If I start opening a new thread every time one is closed and say in the first post "keep it civil this time" I'm eventually (and rightly) going to get banned aren't I? Because I have to admit right now it's tempting to do just that to demonstrate how silly it is, and so Jim has to give the mods banning rights.

  18. #78
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    But until the arseholes are banned, they're just going to come back.

    Can I ask a question of the posters here? I know not everyone is comfortable with Anthille as a mod, but even so, would you be willing to go for letting Anthille have the power to ban people for 48 hours, until Jim can review and decide if it should be permanent or not?

    Let's face it, the worst thing that will happen is you get banned for 48 hours, and honestly I'm fine with not posting here for two days if I get wrongly banned if it means we can sort this crap out?

    Surely the only reason Anthille wasn't allowed to do temp bans in the first place is that 'we' might get upset about it. But I'm far more bothered by threads being closed and discussion being stifled than I am the chance of me not being able to post for a couple of days because of a false positive.

    Does anyone really have a problem with that?
    I don't want more power. I think the current system is okay but the execution needs to be swifter.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    I don't want more power. I think the current system is okay but the execution needs to be swifter.
    Well that's just it. Taking the ability to lock threads away from you, but giving you the ability to temp ban people, is giving you less power.

    Locking a thread essentially says 'you're not allowed to talk about this'. Unless you're saying it's fine to just start another thread when you close one. In which case you have literally no power.

  20. #80
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    I don't want more power. I think the current system is okay but the execution needs to be swifter.
    But it won't be.

    Here's what we're seeing:

    The original Saarkesian thread got to 120 pages before Mohorovicic got banned, and then only because there was a big stink about it on the RPS subforum. The thread was locked anyway.

    The Women Women Women thread got to 20 pages and lay dormant for weeks before Hamster got banned, and then only because all the mods were regularly reading the clusterfuck of locked threads and thus paying attention. The thread was locked anyway.

    This thread, despite the latest kerfuffle, managed to get to six pages of idiots getting their word in, and could warrant two if not three bans - Harbinger and Toejam316, if not Zaboomafoozarg for making such a baiting troll of a post in the first place - yet that's not what happened. The thread got locked.

    The only consistency is that the thread will get locked, which sends the message: Don't bother discussing this, because some idiot will come along and the thread will get locked. MAYBE some time in the future that idiot will be banned, but don't count on it.
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