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  1. #81
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    So Nalano, as, shall we say, the most 'frequently misunderstood' poster on here, would you be up for Anthille and any community mods being able to ban anyone for 48 hours until Jim could make a final decision on it?

    'Cause I'm sorta thinking if you thought that would be okay there'd be very few others that strongly against it.

  2. #82
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Now that you mention it, I think the infraction system was originally supposed to do that. Basically, three infractions would lead to a temp ban or something. It doesn't seem work at the moment, we tried to get Mohorovic that way and it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe Jams can look into it.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    Now that you mention it, I think the infraction system was originally supposed to do that. Basically, three infractions would lead to a temp ban or something. It doesn't seem work at the moment, we tried to get Mohorovic that way and it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe Jams can look into it.
    Haha, if this whole thing comes down to a technical cock-up I will either laugh or cry.

  4. #84
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    I study the internet bible, the cyber-quran and all the old religious books in 3 1/2 disc,.... and all of them agree that 3 threads locked in a forum is the last sign of the **** CYBER APOC[no carrier]
    Last edited by Tei; 16-09-2013 at 02:21 PM.

  5. #85
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    So Nalano, as, shall we say, the most 'frequently misunderstood' poster on here, would you be up for Anthille and any community mods being able to ban anyone for 48 hours until Jim could make a final decision on it?

    'Cause I'm sorta thinking if you thought that would be okay there'd be very few others that strongly against it.
    You know there is no way in hell I'm going to rubber-stamp that. The "three infractions and you're out" I don't believe in because I have two infractions on top of my recent ban for yelling at those morons already.

    I'm a divisive summabitch, it's true, but there are some things that are beyond the pale, and until we make a clear distinction in the policy between insulting an individual and insulting an entire demographic I'm not in favor of giving the mods more power.
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  6. #86
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    Yeah but it's just 48 hours, if that, after which Jim would un-ban if he thought it was unfair anyway. And if he thought it was fair then, well, you were getting banned anyway.

    I know it's not ideal. Ideal would be someone from RPS making time to look at the forums. But that ain't going to happen so I'd settle for the odd false positive. But you're more likely to be a false positive than me so I'd defer to you on that.

  7. #87
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    I don't mind limited mod bans on principle but the excellence angle is a distraction of the overly-precious; it's not excellence or civility at issue here. These recent threads weren't locked because beliefs were espoused via shock-imagery or ad hominem, they were locked because people didn't like the nature of the beliefs espoused.

    It doesn't matter if they use a thousand circuitous words or come right out with "you are pathetic overreacting sexless slaves to liberal agendas". You all know disgusting ideas when you see them and you damn-well know the fucks involved are disgusting people. This is our reality regardless of whether we're commanded to be gilt-lipped pacifists.

    On a related note, I don't think posts warrant deletion unless they have egregious images; you don't teach by example by sweeping the examples under the rug to shelter our Niceness Brigade.
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  8. #88
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Yeah but it's just 48 hours, if that, after which Jim would un-ban if he thought it was unfair anyway. And if he thought it was fair then, well, you were getting banned anyway.

    I know it's not ideal. Ideal would be someone from RPS making time to look at the forums. But that ain't going to happen so I'd settle for the odd false positive. But you're more likely to be a false positive than me so I'd defer to you on that.
    I don't think the ban I got was fair, and I think the infractions are frankly ridiculous. It's back to the original issue, where calling somebody a stupid fuck is on equal footing with saying women just don't think logically.

    Basically, the message is that civility in language is more important than civility in thought, which is a dumb principle at the heart of it.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I don't think the ban I got was fair, and I think the infractions are frankly ridiculous. It's back to the original issue, where calling somebody a stupid fuck is on equal footing with saying women just don't think logically.
    That is an issue you're right. The optimistic side of me thought that maybe if we could get quicker bans there'd be no need to call someone a stupid fuck.

  10. #90
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    Personally I'd like it if we went down the Neogaf route. Everyone having to have actual real email addresses (no gmail/hotmail/yahoo etc) which would pretty much kill off any spam accounts and outright bans for infractions. I've been over at GAF in the GTA Reviews thread today. Guy posts this: -

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthre...5#post82132365

    Kicked to the curb in less than 5 minutes.

    People have to keep it on a level there, because getting registered isn't easy and there's no slack in terms of the moderation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jambe View Post
    I don't mind limited mod bans on principle but the excellence angle is a distraction of the overly-precious; it's not excellence or civility at issue here. These recent threads weren't locked because beliefs were espoused via shock-imagery or ad hominem, they were locked because people didn't like the nature of the beliefs espoused.
    The excellence angle is entirely pertinent. If people made the effort to adhere to them then the combative atmosphere around here might diminish. While people still think they can get away with being obnoxious to others then things will not radically change.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 16-09-2013 at 05:55 PM.

  11. #91
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    What the hell is a real email address? Because if I had to make another email address (ie, not the gmail one I actually use as my email address) that I don't use to give in order to make an account, wouldn't that by default be my fake email address?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    What the hell is a real email address? Because if I had to make another email address (ie, not the gmail one I actually use as my email address) that I don't use to give in order to make an account, wouldn't that by default be my fake email address?
    I think every email address, except popular free email accounts. So probably Serenegoose@Serenegoose.com is considered real, but Serenegoose@gmail.com is not.

    - - - -

    Not sure if this is the way to go. We are complex smart people here, and thats 90% of the problem, the other 10% is complex controversial topics, like feminism.

    Mixing feminism with a gaming forum is a too potent solution. A explosive one. Akin to a mixture of sulfur, charcoal, and saltpeter.

    Others forums have a political/religious forum, where people say and do nasty things. But theres a rule of "what happens in politics/religion, stay in politics and religion". Maybe a forum of this type (videogames) is not a good place to discuss feminism.
    Last edited by Tei; 16-09-2013 at 06:28 PM.

  13. #93
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    The excellence angle is entirely pertinent. If people made the effort to adhere to them then the combative atmosphere around here might diminish. While people still think they can get away with being obnoxious to others then things will not radically change.
    Your cute romance with Nalano is not the same thing as the forum's consistent inability to prosecute misogynist twats in a timely manner. I don't think draping false genteelness over the forums is worthwhile, but then I don't give a fuck whether people engage in ad hominem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    What the hell is a real email address? Because if I had to make another email address (ie, not the gmail one I actually use as my email address) that I don't use to give in order to make an account, wouldn't that by default be my fake email address?
    A non-free one, generally, as from your workplace or ISP.
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  14. #94
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    I don't think the ban I got was fair, and I think the infractions are frankly ridiculous. It's back to the original issue, where calling somebody a stupid fuck is on equal footing with saying women just don't think logically.
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    That is an issue you're right. The optimistic side of me thought that maybe if we could get quicker bans there'd be no need to call someone a stupid fuck.
    I think it clouds that there are two issues. Banning both parties isn't saying the two problems are on an even keel--it's saying the two problems are both beyond what is acceptable in this forum. We could have a variable punishment system with variable length bans, but shy of that applying a punishment to two different things does not mean we have to see them as equally bad.

    I mean ... I don't see spam posts as Mohorovic levels of bad for the forum, but they need to go and the relevant accounts should be perma-banned out of hand. No temp bans, no warnings, nothing. Spam is spam. It's not about how relatively bad spam is. It's about appropriate action.

    I know some disagree that warning/banning/whatever IS appropriate action for insulting people but the Hivemind says otherwise and more on point this shouldn't a matter of setting things on a sliding scale from bad to worse and deciding where on that scale bans should go. I think that's an ill-advised way to do this.

    I don't think draping false genteelness over the forums is worthwhile, but then I don't give a fuck whether people engage in ad hominem.
    I agree with Kadayi that it makes things more combative, and that that's a bad thing for the atmosphere of the forum. I think it's another (lesser) side of the same coin involving racism, misogyny and so forth. Allow either form of belligerent unexcellence, hierarchy of unexellence aside, gives power to bullies and trolls, adds tension and makes people feel unsafe. That's not the forum I want and it's not the forum the hivemind wants.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 16-09-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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  15. #95
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    I agree with Kadayi that it makes things more combative, and that that's a bad thing for the atmosphere of the forum. I think it's another (lesser) side of the same coin involving racism, misogyny and so forth. Allow either form of belligerent unexcellence, hierarchy of unexellence aside, gives power to bullies and trolls, adds tension and makes people feel unsafe. That's not the forum I want and it's not the forum the hivemind wants.
    Politeness-frippery being the order of the day is clear.

    I'm familiar with that tired refrain and I disagree just as tiredly.
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  16. #96
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jambe View Post
    Politeness-frippery being the order of the day is clear.

    I'm familiar with that tired refrain and I disagree just as tiredly.
    I dunno, maybe I am just getting old, but I get REALLY turned off when I can't make a post without someone saying "You are a fucking moron and should die". Hell, before the recent burst of actual mods, I was QUITE close to leaving these boards as it just wasn't fun anymore. Not saying the new mods fixed everything, but people are at least more on the lookout and are calmer with how they respond and we get better discussions.

    If that isn't what you like, fair enough. You and I don't like the same kinds of places. But judging by the "be excellent" rule and how certain people HAVE actually managed to be large enough assholes to actually get banned (and, I think we can all agree that you have to go out of your way for that to actually happen here :p), it probably isn't what RPS likes. And if it IS what they like, fair enough. I'll go elsewhere. Just as I assume you will go elsewhere if you dislike having to be overly polite.

    Because remember: Just because you like a website doesn't mean you have to like the community.
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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post

    I know some disagree that warning/banning/whatever IS appropriate action for insulting people but the Hivemind says otherwise and more on point this shouldn't a matter of setting things on a sliding scale from bad to worse and deciding where on that scale bans should go. I think that's an ill-advised way to do this.
    But do you not see that this is already happening? When Nalano, with 9000-odd posts gets banned from the forum three days after he called someone an overweight cock-muncher, it's an annoying punishment for him as he can't post on the forum he enjoys.

    But when random misogynistic troll 27 spouts a whole bunch of bile in some thread, and then gets banned three days after the thread was closed (and no-one made a new one out of respect for the mods), he doesn't even realise as he's moved on by then.

  18. #98
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    The problem is that the "excellence" issue really is somewhat relative. It's one thing to call out people for being misogynists/racists/trolls. Those people shouldn't feel welcomed here and should be dealt with swiftly.

    It's another to insult someone because, say, he prefers AMD over Nvidia, or thinks all RPGs should be turn-based. Or because you have a personal feud with them for whatever reason. That should really be frowned upon.

    Granted, in a few borderline cases it's hard to distinguish the first type from the second, but that's why being a moderator is tough.

  19. #99
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
    The problem is that the "excellence" issue really is somewhat relative. It's one thing to call out people for being misogynists/racists/trolls. Those people shouldn't feel welcomed here and should be dealt with swiftly.

    It's another to insult someone because, say, he prefers AMD over Nvidia, or thinks all RPGs should be turn-based. Or because you have a personal feud with them for whatever reason. That should really be frowned upon.
    I'm aggressive with pretty much everybody, but the actual "fuck you, fuck you and fuck you" comments are reserved primarily for exactly the sort of racist, sexist bullshit that should be universally censured. I've already largely bowed out of threads with a heavy Kadayi presence because it never works out anyway.

    Also, I'd never use "overweight cock-muncher." In fact, I think the only person I've every called out for their weight is Chris Christie, and that's because calling him a Fat Fuck is alliterative. Soon, though, thanks to his stomach staple, he will be a Formerly Fat Fuck.
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  20. #100
    Network Hub Jambe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Just as I assume you will go elsewhere if you dislike having to be overly polite.
    No, I won't, but I haven't been flinging invective around anyway; I'm just not bothered by it. Excellence in my mind is giving people the benefit of the doubt, not being prissy.

    I think it's telling that one of the turds that just got the boot had like 700 posts and should have been banned long ago for its gross misogyny but for whatever reason it wasn't.
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